FishEaters Traditional Catholic Forums

Full Version: Windswept House
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
(11-28-2010, 12:29 PM)timoose Wrote: [ -> ]FYI: there are several threads here where the accusations against Fr. Malachi Martin have been de-constructed and found to be a false. The accusations of him being a Jewish operative has no proof. He didn't have an affair with the wife of the man where he stayed. He remained a priest and was released from his Jesuit vows by pope Paul VI. If you poke around you can find tons of threads concerning Fr. Malachi Martin here, and they will dispel the notion that he was something besides a traditional priest.

I participated in the last thread.  I don't recall any thorough dismantling of the evidence against him but I'll give it another look.

What I find very silly is people who largely form their views on the Church based on Martin's account.  I've seen people say "Because of the enthronement, this is the situation now".  A measured and intelligent person can't put such weight on something that cannot be verified to reasonable standards.

You know the hard-core Fundies love Martin.  The Jack Chick types, who really believe their are Jesuit spies in the country who one day will murder all (Protestant) pastors, love Martin and all his books.  To them he is the proof that the Catholic Church is the spawn of satan.  Of course, they misunderstand some things, but Martin's writings really do not allow the intrinsic holiness and indefectibility of the Church Herself to shine through, often.

That said, I've had The Jesuits, one I haven't read yet, on my reading pile for some time...
(12-01-2010, 10:37 AM)A Catholic Thinker Wrote: [ -> ]You know the hard-core Fundies love Martin.  The Jack Chick types, who really believe their are Jesuit spies in the country who one day will murder all (Protestant) pastors, love Martin and all his books.  To them he is the proof that the Catholic Church is the spawn of satan.  Of course, they misunderstand some things, but Martin's writings really do not allow the intrinsic holiness and indefectibility of the Church Herself to shine through, often.

They use Our Lord Jesus in the same way.
(12-01-2010, 11:05 AM)Gerard Wrote: [ -> ]
(12-01-2010, 10:37 AM)A Catholic Thinker Wrote: [ -> ]You know the hard-core Fundies love Martin.  The Jack Chick types, who really believe their are Jesuit spies in the country who one day will murder all (Protestant) pastors, love Martin and all his books.  To them he is the proof that the Catholic Church is the spawn of satan.  Of course, they misunderstand some things, but Martin's writings really do not allow the intrinsic holiness and indefectibility of the Church Herself to shine through, often.

They use Our Lord Jesus in the same way.

As I said, the Fundies using him as they do isn't proof of anything.  They misunderstand everything.  However, the fact is that if Martin had really *ever* said anything positive about the Church (not modern churchmen, just the Church Herself) they'd have a far harder time.  In fact, if he ever said "Despite the current situation, the Catholic Church is the True Church established by Jesus Christ", and things like that, and concentrated on that important truth, there's no way he ever would have become such a hero to that crowd.  And hero he is. 

I've read two books of his very thoroughly and never got the sense that the intrinsic holiness and indefectibility of the Church was prominent in his mind.  Of course, you could say he took it as a given.  But he knew well he was writing for an audience broader than devout Catholics for whom it is most definitely not a given.  The big takeaway from them is simply "the Catholic Church is full of evil" from whence comes the natural leap to "the Catholic Church *is* evil".
(12-01-2010, 12:10 PM)A Catholic Thinker Wrote: [ -> ]As I said, the Fundies using him as they do isn't proof of anything.  They misunderstand everything.  However, the fact is that if Martin had really *ever* said anything positive about the Church (not modern churchmen, just the Church Herself) they'd have a far harder time.  In fact, if he ever said "Despite the current situation, the Catholic Church is the True Church established by Jesus Christ", and things like that, and concentrated on that important truth, there's no way he ever would have become such a hero to that crowd.  And hero he is. 

Again, you could wish for Christ to have said things that would have clarified the errors of the Protestants.

No Protestant of good will could accuse Fr. Martin of not loving the Church.   It's evident in a number of his books that are relevant to the Church. 

Listening to just a few of his interviews (one of which is posted below) He places, the Truth, the Supernatural and Christ Himself as integral to the Church.


I read an article somewhere that stated Agnes was now living in the southern part of the United States and tried to go after Cardinal Bernardin legally. The article was pretty vague though, and I was wondering if anyone had any other information.
All of that info. was on the RCF site, which has been given to some money men that will carry on. Those back issues of the magazine will be sold in the future, I've been told. They might still be online but I've not checked As I recall they were holding back with Agnes because Cardinal Bernardin had died. Brady was trying to build a mega-case against them all. I'm betting that Fr. Kunz, Fr. Fiore, and Fr.Martin figure in to this too. That's why I wish Fr. Martin's last book was published.
tim

http://rcf.org/
(11-28-2010, 11:13 PM)quotidianum Wrote: [ -> ]It is also interesting when you consider how Fr Martin died...

Ironically, it's very similar to the way one of his characters dies--Fr.  Aldo Carnesecca http://starharbor.com/fr_martin/charact.html#ac in Windswept House, but maybe I won't say anymore lest I ruin it for Baskerville and others. As Gerard already said, Christian Gladstone is Fr. Martin but I think Fr. Martin identified with Carnesecca, too. I think Carnesecca is who Fr. Martin would've been had he stayed in Rome.
(12-01-2010, 04:04 PM)Jacafamala Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-28-2010, 11:13 PM)quotidianum Wrote: [ -> ]It is also interesting when you consider how Fr Martin died...

Ironically, it's very similar to the way one of his characters dies--Fr.  Aldo Carnesecca http://starharbor.com/fr_martin/charact.html#ac in Windswept House, but maybe I won't say anymore lest I ruin it for Baskerville and others. As Gerard already said, Christian Gladstone is Fr. Martin but I think Fr. Martin identified with Carnesecca, too. I think Carnesecca is who Fr. Martin would've been had he stayed in Rome.

Hmm good point.
(12-01-2010, 02:05 PM)Gerard Wrote: [ -> ]
(12-01-2010, 12:10 PM)A Catholic Thinker Wrote: [ -> ]As I said, the Fundies using him as they do isn't proof of anything.  They misunderstand everything.  However, the fact is that if Martin had really *ever* said anything positive about the Church (not modern churchmen, just the Church Herself) they'd have a far harder time.  In fact, if he ever said "Despite the current situation, the Catholic Church is the True Church established by Jesus Christ", and things like that, and concentrated on that important truth, there's no way he ever would have become such a hero to that crowd.  And hero he is. 

Again, you could wish for Christ to have said things that would have clarified the errors of the Protestants.

No Protestant of good will could accuse Fr. Martin of not loving the Church.   It's evident in a number of his books that are relevant to the Church. 

Listening to just a few of his interviews (one of which is posted below) He places, the Truth, the Supernatural and Christ Himself as integral to the Church.



He said many good things and came across as orthodox much of the time at least, to be sure.

I just don't care too much one way or another.  I have no way of knowing the truth about him - none of us do.  

My problems with him began in reading Hostage to the Devil in which he makes some rather dubious statements about the powers of darkness - statements that don't jive well with those I've read from other exorcists.  He simply ascribes to them too much power.  It's not quite the Church's common view.

Then I read about his quotations about his exorcisms that seem impossible to be accurate.  Of course, maybe he just exaggerated a wee bit and most of what else he said was true.  And all the other stuff, that did indeed come from AngelQueen.  And it's true that all that could have been nonsense.  To delve so deeply into the personal life of one man who's no longer with us - it seems both distasteful and largely pointless.

So, I just don't care if he was mistaken about certain things (he could have been honestly mistaken, or make assumptions) or if they did actually happen just as described.  Has no bearing on what I do and should believe and how I should behave.  So that's that.  For me.
(12-01-2010, 04:27 PM)A Catholic Thinker Wrote: [ -> ]My problems with him began in reading Hostage to the Devil in which he makes some rather dubious statements about the powers of darkness - statements that don't jive well with those I've read from other exorcists.  He simply ascribes to them too much power.  It's not quite the Church's common view.

Then I read about his quotations about his exorcisms that seem impossible to be accurate.  Of course, maybe he just exaggerated a wee bit and most of what else he said was true.  And all the other stuff, that did indeed come from AngelQueen.  And it's true that all that could have been nonsense.  To delve so deeply into the personal life of one man who's no longer with us - it seems both distasteful and largely pointless.

I don't know what you're talking about.  In terms of Hostage to the Devil attributing too much power to the demons.  Fr. Martin actually focused more on the psychological attacks than the preternatural phenomena.  Fr. Amorth's books actually have more fantastical manifestations of power by the demons than Fr. Martin.  Fr. Martin mentions the usual things, infused knowledge of foreign languages, extraordinary strength, personal knowledge, levitation, but he hardly touches on those.  Fr. Amorth was the one describing the vomiting of pins and needles,  the power of witchcraft and it was Fr. James Lebar who once described possessed people spinning on the ceiling.  Fr. Fortea's book is also right in line with the power of demons.  I have copies of Fr. Eutenauer's books but I haven't read them yet. 
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7