FishEaters Traditional Catholic Forums

Full Version: We do not worship the same God
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6
This Sunday our priest in his sermon said Catholics don't worship the same God as Muslims and other pagan religions. He said if someone's God is nature then we certainly don't worship nature as a God. Even the Muslims...we can't say we worship the same God when they don't believe in the Divinity of Jesus Christ. We also can't say that Mohammad is a great prophet. In fact Mohammad is a great example of religious indifferentism because Mohammad took things from the Jewish religion and the Christian religion and incorporated it in his Mohammedanism religion. As St. Peter said, there is no salvation from anyone except the name of Jesus.
It sounds like a good sermon.
Did he provide any sources or philosophical reasoning for his opinion in regards to Muslims? I have never really come across any personally.

Here is how I have come to understand it:

In regards to those who worship creation, we certainly do not since that is a created thing with a contingent essence and not God. On the other hand, I have never seen any saint or Pope refer to the Muslims as idolators (ie that they worship something real or imaginary other than God). On the other hand, it seems the philosophical tradition of the Church does lead to the conclusion that they do worship the same God and they are always--as far as I can see--distinguished from idolators. I have never seen it stated that acknowledgement of the Incarnation is necessary to have knowledge of God, and therefore worship him in a natural way.  In fact, it is a definitive Catholic doctrine that knowledge of God can be had from reason alone. Basically, one cannot truly know God without knowing the Incarnate Word, but one can know of Him and He can truly be the object of one's knowledge.

In his commentary on St. Paul's letter to the Romans, specifically the first chapter which deals with the natural knowledge of God, St. Thomas explains that knowledge of the Persons of the Trinity is impossible apart from revelation--therefore faith is required to believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ--but knowledge of God can be had apart from revelation (ie faith is not required, which is a definitive Catholic doctrine) and the Persons can be known through appropriation ("invisible things of God" = the Father; "eternal power" = the Son; and "divinity" = the Holy Spirit.) Muslims do acknowledge these appropriated attributes of God as well as His non-contingent essence and aesity (ie God's essense is summed up by His self-declaraion "I AM").

Anyway, the Catholic Encyclopedia explains the two classes of infidels. Muslims are always in the second class:

"As in ecclesiastical language those who by baptism have received faith in Jesus Christ and have pledged Him their fidelity and called the faithful, so the name infidel is given to those who have not been baptized. The term applies not only to all who are ignorant of the true God, such as pagans of various kinds, but also to those who adore Him but do not recognize Jesus Christ, as Jews and Mohammedans."

The Catechism of St. Pius X makes the same distinction. St. John of Damascus, in his work Fount of Knowledge, discusses how the Muslims were previously idolators, but abandoned idolatry for there heresy of Muhammed. St. John is a good source on this since he lived and worked immersed in their culture and ha d alot of personal interactions with them. There is also the oft-cited letter of St. Gregory VII to the same effect.

The arguments against them referring to the same being that we adore that I have seen usually boil down to (1) knowledge of the divine Persons being necessary for knowledge of God (which I briefly addressed above) and that many Muslims do evil things in the name of God and erroneously believe that the Koran is actual revelation, therefore it is not the same God--but I think one can have knowledge of an object's essence (in this case God), while misappropriating things as His particular commands and promises, etc. which are not.

Again, if anyone has any authoritative sources to the contrary, I'd be much obliged.

As an aside, acknolwedging and even adoring God in a natural way is not sufficient for salvation, which requires faith. That's why saying Muslims adore the one God is not contrary to the dogma that belonging to the Church is necessary for salvation.

Muslims do not believe in the Divinity of Jesus Christ. They deny the Holy Trinity...therefore, they do not worship the same God since God is The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

The people in the old testament, at least the regular folks of Israel, (the prophets probably had more knowledge), worshipped the same God we worship and they did not know about the Trinity.

I also think popes from the past, and I mean from the middle ages, not that far from the creation of the islamic religion, have recognized that muslims worship the same God.
I've heard that before, and from the pulpit.  I disagree.  They may be confused about who God is and what He wants, but to say it is not the same God is not really correct.
Any butcher knives with those dresses?
(01-03-2011, 08:10 PM)QuisUtDeus Wrote: [ -> ]I've heard that before, and from the pulpit.  I disagree.  They may be confused about who God is and what He wants, but to say it is not the same God is not really correct.

I have actually changed my mind about this, I used to believe like you that the Muslims believed or worshiped the same God, however I am not so sure anymore.

As there understanding of God aside from the fact that is Jesus Christ, is completely and utterly wrong. Philosophically speaking we are not even close as a common understanding.
http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/inde...sg33300664

Stop slumming with Feeneyites, Peter.
None of us has perfect understanding of God. 

The Christian whose will has been presented with and accepted the doctrine of the Trinity has a better understanding than the Muslim or the Jew, to be sure, and this is important.  God's Triune nature is a very deep and important truth.  Yet God's nature encompasses other qualities as well and can be known to some degree at least without being aware of this.

God speaks to the soul; knowledge of God is really His indwelling in the soul.  He does not hide Himself completely from the honest, searching soul capable of loving Him even from within the bounds of an incomplete (Judaism) or even false (Islam) religion.

If the sort of logic implied in the OP is taken to its logical conclusion than any Christian throughout time who had any misunderstanding at all about the nature of God didn't "worship the same God" we do. 
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6