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Full Version: Why claim that smoking is not a sin?
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Nonsense!! If ubhae rathinv it in why go ro a pub that has smokers? Rather ur a wee tyrant and laud and force the gov to bann smoking for everyone in such places. Do u need the gov  to wipe your ass too?
what's the ppm with letting ownersthose who own rhe bussiness to decide? U less it just serves your need for authoritarianism I don't get why anyone whould be foolish enough to praise gov encroachment.
Yeah smoking sections were dumb. Instead you winning wee bras should o been told to shove it rather like all things in cananda you brats get your way even more so in Quebec
it's nor even about smoking u don't even sees it
(02-12-2011, 08:37 PM)JayneK Wrote: [ -> ]There is a proportionate reason to use a cell phone, a car or have an office job that justifies the risk involved.  What is the proportionate reason the justifies smoking? 

The modicum of pleasure it brings in this valley of tears. We are not puritans, much less neopagan puritans. Resist the sterilizers.
(02-12-2011, 08:46 PM)JayneK Wrote: [ -> ]Actually, I'm asking those who claim it is not sinful to support their claim.  I am open to a good argument that smoking is not sinful.  

You've shifted the burden of proof like this from the beginning of this thread. But it's not our task to prove a negative, but yours to prove that, per se, it's sinful. By the way, I'm not a smoker.
(02-12-2011, 10:19 PM)Bakuryokuso Wrote: [ -> ]Individual guilt is commuted thru invincible ignorance though. It's pretty sad to hear folks addicted to the stuff defending it.

Since smoking is so addictive, this probably reduces the culpability of smokers. 
(02-12-2011, 10:27 PM)MichaelNZ Wrote: [ -> ]I definitely disagree with Jayne about fast food being a sin. If you ate only McDonald's or only KFC that would be a sin, but there is nothing sinful about having a Big Mac for dinner. I have never heard anywhere that the Church teaches that only healthy food may be eaten.

The principle is that it sinful to do that which harms oneself or others.  Eating fast food on rare occasions, as far as I know, is not harmful and therefore not sinful.  Eating that way on a regular basis is harmful. 
(02-12-2011, 11:17 PM)quotidianum Wrote: [ -> ]You know, I've actually thought of this quite often, and have come to varying conclusions.  The fact that there is no authoritative declaration against smoking per se leaves me believing that it is not expressly sinful, but this is a legalistic conclusion that is not generally becoming of a Catholic, and so I'm not set to it.   (For the record, I have never smoked "regularly" and have never smoked cigarettes, but I smoke a cigar every once in a while and have smoked hooka in the past, which I understand are "more dangerous" than cigarettes because neither have filters.)  I think that if smoking becomes an addiction, then it is a sin of gluttony like any other addiction.  As I understand sins of gluttony and over-indulgence, it is sinful to surrender reason and self-control to urges.

I think that is reasonable to claim that smoking is not intrinsically sinful.  Rather it is sinful to the extent that it is harmful.  Based on the current state of medical knowledge,  regular (daily) smoking is harmful and therefore sinful.  In the sermon linked to earlier in the thread, the priest said that addictions are not sins but moral imperfections.  He did not go into detail about this, but I think the idea is that in addiction one is not longer freely choosing one's actions.  For something to be a mortal sin it must be freely chosen.  Smoking is highly addictive, so I could see making a case that even the heaviest smokers, while doing something gravely wrong, are not committing a mortal sin.

(02-12-2011, 11:17 PM)quotidianum Wrote: [ -> ]That said, another HUGE issue, I think, in this controversy here is the question of smoking while pregnant.  We know that smoking causes harm to fetuses in a much more exaggerated fashion than it does to adults, and that it can even kill them.  It seems to me that if the mother knows this, as mothers these days in most of the world know, and she smokes nonetheless, that this is sinful.  Obviously, you, Jayne, think that this is sinful too because you have already stated that you think all smoking in sinful, but to the others who do not agree with you, I ask, is smoking while pregnant a-okay?

I don't think that all smoking is sinful.  I can think of a couple of cases which aren't for example.  If a person were offered a cigarette before facing a firing squad, long-term health effects would be irrelevant and smoking could have a steadying effect that would help this person face death.  Or, if a person had Crohn's disease which was not responding to other treatments, that would be a proportionate reason to smoke in spite of the health risks.
(02-12-2011, 11:25 PM)quotidianum Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-12-2011, 11:08 PM)Bakuryokuso Wrote: [ -> ]no smoking sections in restaurant were no like no peeing areas in swimming pools. Smokers are the minority now so screw em I say I hate breathing that shit when I'm in a park playing with my son, same principle - dog owners have to pick up dog turds so we don't step in it. And smokers love to break the rules and smoke where theyre not supposed to. Want to see an asshole? Tell a smoker to not smoke in a no smoking zone. They bite your head off. Addicted pricks.

Indeed, I have long thought  that using a stream of vast generalizations and irrelevant personal opinions, while punctuating one's thoughts with several unnecessary cuss words, helps a person get his point across much more clearly.

Is there some reason that this thought was provoked by a comment by Bakuryokuso rather than one by DK?
About two weeks ago, in another thread, I mentioned that in Germany a certain idolatry of health, long life, temple of  caspar the holy ghost was going full throttle along with fitness and a whole bunch of whiz bang wackiness. I learned about this a couple of years ago on EWTN. They had a priest as guest from Germany on Fr. Pacwa's show,  and he said he could see it starting here in America. I have experienced it here as a moral disdain for the things I like. One of the latest dismissives is that if one wants to be healthy, one shouldn't eat anything white, like, bread, pasta, rice, potatoes, and of course salt. All of these being able to cut you down in the prime of your underweight pristine progressive life. This is hilarious. All most like in the books of Macchabees, except no one is ready to drive the Arnold Schwarzenegger and gyms out of here.

(02-12-2011, 11:30 PM)Jitpring Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-12-2011, 08:46 PM)JayneK Wrote: [ -> ]Actually, I'm asking those who claim it is not sinful to support their claim.  I am open to a good argument that smoking is not sinful.  

You've shifted the burden of proof like this from the beginning of this thread. But it's not our task to prove a negative, but yours to prove that, per se, it's sinful. By the way, I'm not a smoker.

The burden of proof lies on anyone making a claim.  The claim was made that smoking is not sinful.  If he meant that smoking is not intrinsically sinful, that was a reasonable claim.  If he meant that smoking is never or is rarely sinful that seems inconsistent with Catholic teaching.  It is reasonable for me to ask for an explanation.
I have been a pack a day smoker since I was 16 years old - but have quit a few times during those years.  I do not believe smoking to be a sin in most cases, but anything done in great excess can be a sin, and when you make that one thing the most important thing in your life, you are actually "worshiping" it.  Like many other things, I believe it is a matter of culpability.

For me, smoking isn't even close to the most important thing in my life - it is merely a remnant of a life past that has stuck around.  I no longer do drugs (I am a former addict) - I no longer drink alcohol - I no longer have promiscuous sex - but smoking cigs has hung around - one last thing that has stuck with me that I haven't been able to shake.  I am aware of them being "harmful," although I also believe that they are made to seem way more evil than what they truly are.  There are MANY things one can do to harm one's body - even eating many of today's processed foods, which is probably equally as harmful as smoking, if not more so.  Breathing the air can be harmful to one's health.  I worked a job once in a manufacturing plant that had many chemicals polluting the air.  Just working there was harmful to one's health - but was it sinful for me to work there, knowing that the air was could be harmful to me?  No, it was not.

I do believe that one day I will quit for good, but one must want to quit smoking, and at the moment, I am not there.  I still enjoy smoking and it helps me cope with stress, but for me it is more of a money issue than health, because smoking doesn't really effect my lungs all that much.  I have been smoking for 16 years and I never cough.  A doctor once told me this has to do with several factors, from the pre-condition of one's lungs to how deep one inhales.  He told me that I am a "shallow inhaler," which is why my lungs are still in good shape.  I can still hold my breath for quite a long time as well.

Besides, each priest that I have asked concerning smoking has told me that in most cases smoking is NOT sinful, and the Church herself has never stated that it was.  Besides, I believe that knowingly damaging one's spirit is MUCH more dangerous than one's body - like attending the Novus Ordo Mass when one knows the MANY problems it has - just to get their "Sunday Obligation" for the week by submitting to a Mass that destroys the Faith and has been proven to do so.
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