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Wow, that was a great video.  Of course, now I could use a drink.  What a wreck.

Bernadin, that filthy bum.  I'm glad Voris called him out by name.
One of the aspects of a possible "conspiracy" that is lost on non-believers is the fact that a demonic intelligence may be the ringleader and not a group of humans who meet and organize plans.  If you believe in an extraoardinarily ancient being, an angel with enormous power and intelligence who never sleeps and can tempt, manipulate and coerce billions of people, who never rests and never relents unless forced to by a greater power.  It's very plausible that the conspiracy may originate and only be understood by it/him.  But the evidence of the intelligence is there, the phenomena is there.  So, dismissing the idea of a conspiracy theories and leaving it up to a random procession of "unrelated events" is an act of will on the part of the non-believer.

Ironically, the recourse often resorted to and promoted by religious who believe in the supernatural order but don't necessarily believe in a "conspiracy" against the Church, resort to engaging in a "conspiracy" of prayer and appeals to Our Lord and Our Lady and the Communion of Saints in order to affect the outcome of what they observe in favor of the Church. 

(02-18-2011, 08:47 PM)Gerard Wrote: [ -> ]One of the aspects of a possible "conspiracy" that is lost on non-believers is the fact that a demonic intelligence may be the ringleader and not a group of humans who meet and organize plans.  If you believe in an extraoardinarily ancient being, an angel with enormous power and intelligence who never sleeps and can tempt, manipulate and coerce billions of people, who never rests and never relents unless forced to by a greater power.  It's very plausible that the conspiracy may originate and only be understood by it/him.   But the evidence of the intelligence is there, the phenomena is there.  So, dismissing the idea of a conspiracy theories and leaving it up to a random procession of "unrelated events" is an act of will on the part of the non-believer.

Ironically, the recourse often resorted to and promoted by religious who believe in the supernatural order but don't necessarily believe in a "conspiracy" against the Church, resort to engaging in a "conspiracy" of prayer and appeals to Our Lord and Our Lady and the Communion of Saints in order to affect the outcome of what they observe in favor of the Church. 

On another Catholic forum I was banned for bringing up the topic of Michael Voris' Vortex on the Ravenous wolves. The thread was deleted apparently because of the attacks on Michael Voris. When I bought the subject up again on another thread it was then that I was banned from the web site permanently. Meanwhile another thread went on and on attacking Michael Voris and it appears Nothing was done ???

I and others here can probably guess the forum, and I assure you, most people here would not be surprised that happened.

Most here, including myself, like Voris, except for his haircut.  :laughing:
i also see this on the level of the sacraments and this one reason i switched from no to tlm. In my archdiocese, kids have to wait until theyre like 10 years old for first communion. In my geographic no parish, the kid has to go to church 3 weeks in a row before first communion. It's cookie cutter, one size fits all, come one come all. In the diocesan tlm, the priest judges whether the kid is ready. So my boy will be able to have first communion at 7. He's ready, so why delay? Look at a typical no mass... Virtually everyone takes communion. So tons of sacrilege must be happening but nothing is done about it. Sometimes there'd be only me or one or two others going to confession before a weekday mass and then basically all 75 people receive the host. Something's fishy. And most catholic marriages are between "catholics" who are already cohabitating, contracepting and failing in the sunday obligation. And people, i think, leave the church in the midst of this unserious "hoax" atmosphere
Excellent Voris-video.  I think we will see a visible schism, rather than a mere "de facto" schism or insurrection.  To be honest, I really would like to see the Modernist and Liberal heretics expelled and excommunicated from the Holy Roman Church (Yes, we ought to pray for them.) However, the damage they continue to do whilst remaining apart of the Holy Roman Catholic Church is horrendous.  Major and immediate action is required; the medicine needed, severe and grave.

Blessed Lord have mercy upon us.
:pray:
Voris is a "traditionally minded" neo-con that is, IMO, on the edge of becoming a true trad, he just needs a good push (although that push may not even be enough - because if he aligns himself with true traditionalism, then he will alienate the majority of his neo-con constituency).  He continues to complain about the problems in the Church, very rarely explaining why those problems are there to begin with, and never hitting the nail on the head as to the true cause.  The answer is that it is the Second Vatican Council that has changed the ecclesiastical orientation in the Church by initiating a strange, subverted yet effective "coup d'etat" within the official structure of the Church.  This seizing of power within the Church in the late 1960's allowed the new upper eschalon to enforce their will, which was changing/destroying the Mass of all-time and replacing said Mass with a Protestant form of worship strictly based on Thomas Cramner's previously condemned rite. 

It is Vatican II that is the root cause and the N.O. Mass, which stems from the "spirit of Vatican II" that is the main cause of the symptoms that Voris speaks, that is, the low Mass attendance and the fact that the majority who claim to be "Catholic" deny at least one major doctrine or dogma of the Faith.  Using typical neo-con tactics, he blames every bishop in the world for these problems, sparing the Pope no matter what he says and does (actually, I bet if one of the many bishops he slams for Modernism became the Pope, Voris would quickly forget about said bishop's alignment and continue along the path of "the Pope is a demi-god" that is routine within the neo-con camp).  He says that there is an "open war against Peter," but he fails to recognize that the post-conciliar popes have been the forefront generals of this war, promoting both the new religion of Vatican II and, at limited times, the true religion of Christ, and causing great scandal in the hearts of every Catholic who knows the alignment of the pre-conciliar Church (no Catholic worth his salt can claim that John Paul II's "Assisi Prayer Meetings" were in any shape of form in the true spirit of Catholicism).  This has caused even greater confusion among Catholics, whom the majority have no real idea what the Church really teaches concerning specific topics (i.e. religious liberty, ecumenism, extra ecclesiam nulla salus etc.)  Among the laity, confusion and blind obedience are the debilitating factors of the day.

All in all, when the altars where stripped out of our churches and the Mass of all-time  was subdued and a "banal,on-the-spot production" that is basically the Protestant arch-heretic Cramner's "Mass" was allowed to usurp - OF COURSE Catholics are going to loose the Faith!  This is a no-brainer!  Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi.  At times, Voris may denounce certain "abuses" present in many N.O. Masses throughout the world, but he fails to recognize that it is the faulty foundation of the N.O. Mass itself that allows these abuses to take place.  It is the sacrilegious foundation of the New Mass that causes these problems - it is the holy foundation of the TLM that prevents them.  This is why there have NEVER been these abuses in the TLM, neither before the council or now.  Also, no Protestant has EVER accepted the TLM as acceptable worship - but Protestants all over the world have accepted the New Mass as sufficient worship, claiming that it is now alright for Protestants to worship alongside of Catholics.  This FACT should scream in all of our faces that the TLM and the New Mass are NOT teaching the same Faith, which was astutely observed by Cardinals Ottaviani and Bacci, claiming that "the New Mass fails to present the Faith as taught by the Council of Trent."  This observation, again, should be a loud call to all who claim the New Mass still teaches Catholicism complete and resolute.  The major reason for this accepting of Protestants is because the New Mass fails to show that a sacrifice is being offered to God, and this is ingrained within the very foundation of the New Mass.  Therefore, it is not the "abuses" of the New Mass that are the problem, but the New Mass itself that is the problem.

Anyway, for those of us who understand this modern crisis for what it really is - we know that the schism has already occurred, regardless of them claiming to be "within" the official structure of the Church.
VTR  The American Catholic Council that Voris speaks about will have it's first conference in Detroit this June or July. The Archbishop of Detroit has forbiden Catholics from the diocese from attending. A prelude to opposition to the reform of the reform and the new liturgy. Schism in my opinion is quite possible.

Nic    I agree with your comment. Maybe prayers should should said to Our Lay of Fatima because Voris seems to distance himself from her. He also makes the point of not naming V2 and falls just by short by using terms such as "around 45 years ago" or "for a couple of generations now''. I don't understand why he can't name the obvious. V2 was essentially unnecessary and WAS a vehicle for the modernists to do their destruction.
Regardless of where Mr. Voris may stand on the neocon-trad spectrum, he has a particular message he wants to get across to a particular group.  He wants to show as many Catholics as possible the sort of problems going on with the Church.  In order to be as effective as possible in this mission he has to first and foremost consider how he comes across to his entire audience, making sure he is able to expose the scandal in the Church to as many of the faithful as possible.

Making a stand as a trad or taking a particular position in a partisan political fashion is not something he should be doing - it would bring no benefit to his ministry and would only serve to push scare off some of his audience.  I think he does a fine job of conducting his ministry and frankly the details of his personal beliefs are not as important to me as his ability to do the work of God through his particular medium.

We must also keep in mind God has (almost certainly in my mind) called him to this role, and he has to serve God's intentions and do what he feels called to by God - not what excites or placates any particular group of his viewers (whether they be madmen or saints).
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