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Quote:ABORTION PROMOTED FOR NON-ARYAN WOMEN

When the Nazis entered Poland (a Roman Catholic country) in 1939 abortion for any reason was illegal. The use of contraceptives was also illegal in Poland (because the Roman Catholic Church was opposed to abortion and to contraception as well). The Nazis conquered half the country (the other half went to the Russians), and they immediately did away with the anti-abortion laws. Hitler wanted to limit and reduce all non-Aryan populations. In late 1939 a decree was issued encouraging Polish women to seek abortions. The campaign was called "Auswahlfeiheit" ("Freedom of Choice").

Martin Bormann, the Head of the Nazi Party and personal secretary to Adolf Hitler, wrote the following letter to Alfred Rosenberg; the Nazi Party ideologist:

    "The Slavs are to work for us. Insofar as we don't need them they may die. Therefore compulsory vaccination and education are superfluous. The fertility of Slavs is undesirable." (NCA II. Office of the United States Chief of Counsel for Prosecution of Axis Criminality. Nazi Conspiracy and Agression, Volume II. 1946)

Hitler himself said:

    They may use contraceptives or practice abortion--the more the better. In view of the large families of the native population, it could only suit us if girls and women there had as many abortions as possible. Active trade in contraceptives ought to be actually encouraged in the Eastern territories, as we could not possibly have the slightest interest in increasing the non-Germanic population." (Harvest of Hate, 1954, pp. 273-4 emphasis added)

http://www.angelfire.com/mo/baha/nazis.html
Quote: But what is abortion but the killing of an innocent.We know the Nazis engaged in such killing (including abortion) .Does it then become an individual matter? The Church does excommunicate whole groups however.Perhaps the  question should be, "Why were the Nazi party not formally excommunicated" ? Still an interesting question...

Well, the democrat party has as their official plank widespread abortion.  Their acts have killed more people than the Nazis did.  I don't know the answer to your question, though it is not specific to the Nazis.  Take a look at the Mexican revolution.  I don't think there were many excommunications used, though the country was placed under interdict.  However, that was a "Catholic" country. Germany was a pagan/Prot country.  Or look at Napoleon. 
(02-26-2011, 03:52 PM)Habitual_Ritual Wrote: [ -> ]
Quote:ABORTION PROMOTED FOR NON-ARYAN WOMEN

When the Nazis entered Poland (a Roman Catholic country) in 1939 abortion for any reason was illegal. The use of contraceptives was also illegal in Poland (because the Roman Catholic Church was opposed to abortion and to contraception as well). The Nazis conquered half the country (the other half went to the Russians), and they immediately did away with the anti-abortion laws. Hitler wanted to limit and reduce all non-Aryan populations. In late 1939 a decree was issued encouraging Polish women to seek abortions. The campaign was called "Auswahlfeiheit" ("Freedom of Choice").

Martin Bormann, the Head of the Nazi Party and personal secretary to Adolf Hitler, wrote the following letter to Alfred Rosenberg; the Nazi Party ideologist:

    "The Slavs are to work for us. Insofar as we don't need them they may die. Therefore compulsory vaccination and education are superfluous. The fertility of Slavs is undesirable." (NCA II. Office of the United States Chief of Counsel for Prosecution of Axis Criminality. Nazi Conspiracy and Agression, Volume II. 1946)

Hitler himself said:

    They may use contraceptives or practice abortion--the more the better. In view of the large families of the native population, it could only suit us if girls and women there had as many abortions as possible. Active trade in contraceptives ought to be actually encouraged in the Eastern territories, as we could not possibly have the slightest interest in increasing the non-Germanic population." (Harvest of Hate, 1954, pp. 273-4 emphasis added)

http://www.angelfire.com/mo/baha/nazis.html

To be excommunicated you have to provide material aid.  Otherwise it is grave sin.

How many "Catholic" congressmen vote to fund and aren't excommunicated?  All of them, because it isn't immediate and material aid.

(02-26-2011, 03:49 PM)Habitual_Ritual Wrote: [ -> ]But what is abortion but the killing of an innocent.We know the Nazis engaged in such killing (including abortion) .Does it then become an individual matter? The Church does excommunicate whole groups however.Perhaps the  question should be, "Why were the Nazi party not formally excommunicated" ? Still an interesting question...

The only groups I know of excommunicated en-masse were either Freemasons (who held as their goal the destruction of the Church) or heretical and schismatic sects.  Though Nazis promoted heresy, one could be a Nazi and Catholic.

The only time a government was excommunicated, that I know of, was when the King or Queen was excommunicated for their personal acts.

Or are you thinking of something else?
(02-26-2011, 04:08 PM)QuisUtDeus Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-26-2011, 03:49 PM)Habitual_Ritual Wrote: [ -> ]But what is abortion but the killing of an innocent.We know the Nazis engaged in such killing (including abortion) .Does it then become an individual matter? The Church does excommunicate whole groups however.Perhaps the  question should be, "Why were the Nazi party not formally excommunicated" ? Still an interesting question...

The only groups I know of excommunicated en-masse were either Freemasons (who held as their goal the destruction of the Church) or heretical and schismatic sects.  Though Nazis promoted heresy, one could be a Nazi and Catholic.
ndeed
The only time a government was excommunicated, that I know of, was when the King or Queen was excommunicated for their personal acts.

Or are you thinking of something else?

Certainly excommunication of groups tends to be based more on matters of faith n doctrine etc.I'm sure tho the Nazi Party ,who likely had a significant RC membership (for ease of getting along) could be argued as being at war with both the spirit just as much as the flesh given  their promotion of pagan philosophical ideology.Could it be argued that Hitler,head of a party who did indeed materially support abortion programs,be materially culpable?

Hitler also openly opposed the Church but also used Germanys Christian roots as a political tool.He personally proposed an Aryan view of Christ which could certainly be seen as heretical.
http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/abortio2.htm

The way the excommunication for abortion works is this.

Canon 1398 provides that, "a person who procures a successful abortion incurs an automatic (latae sententiae) excommunication." This means that at the very moment that the abortion is successfully accomplished, the woman and all formal conspirators are excommunicated.

An abortion is defined as "the killing of the foetus, in whatever way or at whatever time from the moment of conception" (Pontifical Council for the Interpretation of Legislative Texts, published in the "Acts of the Apostolic See" vol. 80 (1988), 1818). This definition applies to any means, including drugs, by which a human being present in the woman is killed. Thus, once a woman knows she is pregnant the intentional killing of the new life within her is not only murder but an excommunicable offense. A woman who only thinks she might be pregnant has a grave responsibility to find out and to protect the possible life within. Any action to end a "possible" pregnancy while probably not an excommunicable offense would be callous disregard for life and gravely sinful.

Conspirators who incur the excommunication can be defined as those who make access to the abortion possible. This certainly includes doctors and nurses who actually do it, husbands, family and others whose counsel and encouragement made it morally possible for the woman, and those whose direct practical support made it possible (financially, driving to the clinic etc.).

Clearly those who think the availability of chemical abortions will settle the abortion issue are deluded. It will only widen to drug manufacturers, pharmacists and family physicians those guilty of grave sin and subject to excommunication. [It should also be noted that many contraceptive pills are already abortifacient in operation. Theoretically, the knowing use of such a pill for its abortafacient purpose could also subject one to excommunication. Pill manufacturers have recently been touting this capability of their deadly wares.]



NOTE WELL To actually incur the excommunication one must know that it is an excommunicable offense at the time of the abortion. Canon 1323 provides that the following do not incur a sanction, those who are not yet 16, are unaware of a law, do not advert to it or are in error about its scope, were forced or had an unforeseeable accident, acted out of grave fear, or who lacked the use of reason (except culpably, as by drunkenness). Thus a woman forced by an abusive husband to have an abortion would not incur an excommunication, for instance, whereas someone culpably under the influence of drugs or alcohol would (canon 1325).

In any case, whether one has been excommunicated or not, the sin of abortion must be confessed as the taking of innocent human life (5th Commandment). If the penitent did not know about this law at the time of the abortion then he or she was NOT excommunicated. If the person knew about the law but there were extenuating circumstances (such as mentioned above concerning c. 1323) then these factors should be mentioned to the confessor. He will say whether he has the faculty from the bishop to absolve from this excommunication or whether he even needs to. If he does not, he will privately and secretly obtain absolution from the bishop or send the person to a confessor who has that power.

A person who believes they have been excommunicated must refrain from Holy Communion until both absolution for the sin and absolution for the excommunication has been given.

One complicating factor for anyone in this situation is that intentionally withholding mortal sin (abortion) or knowledge of one's excommunication invalidates ALL the absolutions for other sins given since the time of the intentionally overlooked sin. Culpably withholding mortal sin or an excommunication means that even after the priest says the words of absolution because of dishonesty on the penitent's part, the sin has not been absolved. Absolution is not magic, it depends upon sincere repentance from all known mortal sins and a firm purpose of amendment. Such sins would need to be confessed again, as part of an integral (complete and honest) confession. This is not the case if the person did not know that what they did was sinful in the eyes of God and the Church, but only found out this out latter. Since they did not withhold from confession what they knew to be sinful their prior confessions are valid.

The Church makes every effort to make Penance available and obliges priests to make anonymity possible as well (c. 964). There is really no valid excuse for delaying one's full return to the sacraments. All those who have had abortions should come home to Christ and the Church.
(02-26-2011, 03:49 PM)Habitual_Ritual Wrote: [ -> ]Perhaps the  question should be, "Why were the Nazi party not formally excommunicated" ? Still an interesting question...

What kind of question is that? You can't "excomunicate" political organizations, only denounce and condemn them when it's due.

As for National-Socialism in Germany, check Pius XI's "Mit Brennender Sorge," on the Church and the German Reich.
(02-26-2011, 06:01 PM)Petertherock Wrote: [ -> ]http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/abortio2.htm

The way the excommunication for abortion works is this.

Canon 1398 provides that, "a person who procures a successful abortion incurs an automatic (latae sententiae) excommunication." This means that at the very moment that the abortion is successfully accomplished, the woman and all formal conspirators are excommunicated.

Interesting..
So, Hitlers potential heretical opinions aside, would he be considered a formal conspirator given his public vocal support,and probable material support (through party policy) for abortion?

(02-26-2011, 03:20 PM)Habitual_Ritual Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-26-2011, 03:15 PM)alaric Wrote: [ -> ]Understandable............what does this have to do with Hitler?

did he publicly come out for abortion?

what about all of our "catholic" politicians in the West today?

Huh,  is this a genuine response? You seem to have managed to  to pull of a logical/intellectual disconnect in  the space of just 1 posting....amazing.
Pretty good huh?

But doesn't answer my question.

any of them.
(02-26-2011, 08:18 PM)alaric Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-26-2011, 03:20 PM)Habitual_Ritual Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-26-2011, 03:15 PM)alaric Wrote: [ -> ]Understandable............what does this have to do with Hitler?

did he publicly come out for abortion?

what about all of our "catholic" politicians in the West today?

Huh,  is this a genuine response? You seem to have managed to  to pull of a logical/intellectual disconnect in  the space of just 1 posting....amazing.
Pretty good huh?

But doesn't answer my question.

any of them.

you clearly haven't read any of the follow-up, ...way to jump the gun   
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