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(04-02-2011, 03:18 PM)Christus Imperat Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-02-2011, 02:09 PM)NorthernTrad Wrote: [ -> ]Another answer is that "yes" the Thuc consecrations are valid.  This has been studied over and over again.  In fact, they should be considered more valid than any of Modernist bishops that purport to have some kind of authority in the local diocese.  It is actually the Modernists that need to submit to the Church and actually accept the Catholic faith before they can even be considered to have any authority.

I'm not aware of any sacramental theology according to which a consecration can be more or less valid.  They either are valid or are not valid. 

Indeed you are correct.  I should have said "considered less questionable as bishops" or something along those lines.
(04-02-2011, 10:46 PM)NorthernTrad Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-02-2011, 03:18 PM)Christus Imperat Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-02-2011, 02:09 PM)NorthernTrad Wrote: [ -> ]Another answer is that "yes" the Thuc consecrations are valid.  This has been studied over and over again.  In fact, they should be considered more valid than any of Modernist bishops that purport to have some kind of authority in the local diocese.  It is actually the Modernists that need to submit to the Church and actually accept the Catholic faith before they can even be considered to have any authority.

I'm not aware of any sacramental theology according to which a consecration can be more or less valid.  They either are valid or are not valid. 

Indeed you are correct.  I should have said "considered less questionable as bishops" or something along those lines.

Gotcha.
(04-02-2011, 10:04 PM)WhollyRoaminCatholic Wrote: [ -> ]I am suspicious that Thuc, at the end of his life, might have not had the mental capacity to perform ordinations.

Does mental capacity have any impact on intent, form or matter?
Obviously mental capacity can have no effect on matter, and it's unlikely to have any effect on form supposing that the bishop is still able to pronounce the words correctly. Mental capacity is really only relevant as far as it can impede the formation of the intent to do what the church does. A person with severe schizophrenia may confuse reality for fantasy and could potentially therefore compromise his intent in celebrating the sacraments. Though he may have been excessively paranoid, I have seen no evidence that Archbishop Thuc suffered from such a debilitating mental condition that totally undermined his ability to form rational judgments and there is certainly no evidence that he did not intend to validly consecrate. This being the case, I think it is safe to presume that the original Thuc consecrations were all valid.

Edited for spelling, grammar, and because my mind just isn't working today.
(04-02-2011, 10:28 PM)OldMan Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-02-2011, 10:04 PM)WhollyRoaminCatholic Wrote: [ -> ]I am suspicious that Thuc, at the end of his life, might have not had the mental capacity to perform ordinations.

Does mental capacity have any impact on intent, form or matter?

Were you personally acquainted with Abp. Thuc?

No.
wasnt there a thuc bishop that reconciled with the church and now serves as a priest (though he was acknowledge of being a bishop) in germany?
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