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So what you are saying is that the Soul is pure until it comes into contact with the flesh?

Sounds like Docetism to me, or some sort of pseudo-gnosticism.

Refer to the magisterial documents, scripture, or writings of the fathers that teach such an idea. You seem to be propounding a pseudo-dualism, where the flesh contaminates the spirit, making the flesh bad and the spirit good.

That was called Manichaeism.
Dear Gregory I:

Please take no offense... but you need help.
For what? Requiring people to actually be able to support a fancy of theirs?

The soul is created immediately by God and infused immediately by God into the flesh at the exact moment of conception, neither earlier, nor later. We are born sinners, unable to attain grace, unless God deigns to give it to us.

THe flesh is good, it does not corrupt the soul: The soul is subject to corruption with the flesh.

God creates things that break.

He does not always create things pure. If he does, then how does the corrupt flesh come into existence, while the spirit is pure? If all God's creations are pure, then what corrupts the flesh?

YOu said, Divine creation is pure and spotless.

And who created the sinful flesh?

God creates us, and we are sinful when he creates us.
Dear Gregory I:

I promised QuisUtDeus to behave myself.  Therefore, I will behave myself.

You say: "For what? Requiring people to actually be able to support a fancy of theirs? The soul is created immediately by God and infused immediately by God into the flesh at the exact moment of conception, neither earlier, nor later. We are born sinners, unable to attain grace, unless God deigns to give it to us.THe flesh is good, it does not corrupt the soul: The soul is subject to corruption with the flesh.God creates things that break.He does not always create things pure. If he does, then how does the corrupt flesh come into existence, while the spirit is pure? If all God's creations are pure, then what corrupts the flesh? YOu said, Divine creation is pure and spotless.And who created the sinful flesh?God creates us, and we are sinful when he creates us."

I say:  We are sinners in varying degrees.  Those than sin much and those that sin less.  Anyway, what's important is that we have a wonderful Mother in Heaven who is helping us along to the way to Her Son.  All else, ultimately, doesn't matter.
NO, Orthodoxy matters. THe heterodox will be lost.

I am not calling you heterodox here, I simply would like to know the basis of your beliefes that sound like docetism and manichaeism.

WHo created the sinful flesh that contaminates the pure spirit of a Child?

If God then creates sinful bodies, he also creates sinful souls; but the whole man, the soul-body is corrupt. If you insist that the flesh corrupts the soul, then I ask:

Whence is your opinion dear friend?

We are not free to hold to anything we want, but only that which conforms to the teaching of the Church.
(05-10-2011, 08:25 PM)wulfrano Wrote: [ -> ]@ Stubborn.

Quote: "Note that the pope does not grant the invincible ignorant person salvation."

Of course not!  He is just saying that those in invincible ignorance will not be damned for their ignorance as long as it is not wilful.

Actually, he says those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion - - - not those who are in invincible ignorance.

So,  one must struggling with invincible ignorance about the Catholic faith - which in this day and age is incomprehensible.

Deleted.




Stubborn, I thought the preexistence of souls was a heresy of Origen condemned by the church?

God does not create tainted souls?

The soul is eternal because it lasts forever. BUt it is not infinite, it had a definite beginning.
Yes. That's why I deleted the post
(05-11-2011, 06:59 PM)Gregory I Wrote: [ -> ]Stubborn, I thought the preexistence of souls was a heresy of Origen condemned by the church?

God does not create tainted souls?

The soul is eternal because it lasts forever. BUt it is not infinite, it had a definite beginning.

Only God is Eternal.... please.....