FishEaters Traditional Catholic Forums

Full Version: Another EENS, please be patient...
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
(06-24-2011, 02:01 AM)Gregory I Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-23-2011, 07:45 PM)wulfrano Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-23-2011, 08:09 AM)Stubborn Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-22-2011, 06:01 PM)wulfrano Wrote: [ -> ]The lifting of the excommunication is null and void since it was made by the infiltrated Talmudic Jew Paul VI.

Ahh, ok.

FWIW, I understand and sympathize with sede's, but I will say that the "Chair is empty" for only the time between the death of the current pope and the election of the next.

And who is going to elect the next... ?  The electors are all masons.

You really like sweeping generalizations that you have no way of backing up, huh? It's not your place to libel or slander the cardinals. If yo have anything MORE than circumstantial evidence....well, impress me. But I don't think your off-the-wall comments are helpful.

So, Got any documents from the ordinary magisterium that explicitly spell out BOD for me?

Let me help:

Catechisms don't count.
Papal opinons delivered as either personal letters or general addresses or personal advice don't count.
THe writings of saints don't count.
The writings of the Fathers don't count.
Canon law does not count, it is not part of the ordinary magisterium.

Specifically, Encyclicals, Bulls, Apostolic Constitutions. Or if you want, any act of the solemn magisterium like papal decrees and ecumenical councils.

In Italy a book came out listing all the masonic Bishops and Cardinals that there are in the Church, giving dates of entry, names of lodges entered into, and pseudo-names of each inside the lodge.

Bishop Bernard Fellay recently said that inside the Vatican there are now four masonic lodges in full operation.

As to Feeney and BOD... read on...


Richard J. Cushing, Archbishop of Boston – Decree Regarding Leonard Feeney, April 18, 1949

Rev. Leonard Feeney, S.J., because of grave offense against the laws of the Catholic Church has lost the right to perform any priestly function, including preaching and teaching of religion.

Any Catholics who frequent St. Benedict’s Center, or who in any way take part in or assist its activities forfeit the right to receive the Sacrament of Penance and Holy Eucharist.

Given at Boston on the 18th day of April, 1949.


Pius XII – Letter of the Holy Office to the Archbishop of Boston, August 8, 1949

Given on August 8, 1949 explaining the true sense of the Catholic doctrine that there is no salvation outside the Church.

This important Letter of the Holy Office is introduced by a letter of the Most Reverend Archbishop of Boston.

The Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office has examined again the problem of Father Leonard Feeney and St. Benedict Center. Having studied carefully the publications issued by the Center, and having considered all the circumstances of this case, the Sacred Congregation has ordered me to publish, in its entirety, the letter which the same Congregation sent me on the 8th of August, 1949. The Supreme Pontiff, His Holiness, Pope Pius XII, has given full approval to this decision. In due obedience, therefore, we publish, in its entirety, the Latin text of the letter as received from the Holy Office with an English translation of the same approved by the Holy See.

Given at Boston, Mass., the 4th day of September, 1952.

Walter J. Furlong, Chancellor

Richard J. Cushing, Archbishop of Boston.

LETTER OF THE HOLY OFFICE

From the Headquarters of the Holy Office, Aug. 8, 1949.

Your Excellency:

This Supreme Sacred Congregation has followed very attentively the rise and the course of the grave controversy stirred up by certain associates of “St. Benedict Center” and “Boston College” in regard to the interpretation of that axiom: “Outside the Church there is no salvation.”

After having examined all the documents that are necessary or useful in this matter, among them information from your Chancery, as well as appeals and reports in which the associates of “St. Benedict Center” explain their opinions and complaints, and also many other documents pertinent to the controversy, officially collected, the same Sacred Congregation is convinced that the unfortunate controversy arose from the fact that the axiom, “outside the Church there is no salvation,” was not correctly understood and weighed, and that the same controversy was rendered more bitter by serious disturbance of discipline arising from the fact that some of the associates of the institutions mentioned above refused reverence and obedience to legitimate authorities.

Accordingly, the Most Eminent and Most Reverend Cardinals of this Supreme Congregation, in a plenary session held on Wednesday, July 27, 1949, decreed, and the august Pontiff in an audience on the following Thursday, July 28, 1949, deigned to give his approval, that the following explanations pertinent to the doctrine, and also that invitations and exhortations relevant to discipline be given:

We are bound by divine and Catholic faith to believe all those things which are contained in the word of God, whether it be Scripture or Tradition, and are proposed by the Church to be believed as divinely revealed, not only through solemn judgment but also through the ordinary and universal teaching office (, n. 1792).

Now, among those things which the Church has always preached and will never cease to preach is contained also that infallible statement by which we are taught that there is no salvation outside the Church.

However, this dogma must be understood in that sense in which the Church herself understands it. For, it was not to private judgments that Our Savior gave for explanation those things that are contained in the deposit of faith, but to the teaching authority of the Church.

Now, in the first place, the Church teaches that in this matter there is question of a most strict command of Jesus Christ. For He explicitly enjoined on His apostles to teach all nations to observe all things whatsoever He Himself had commanded (Matt. 28: 19-20).

Now, among the commandments of Christ, that one holds not the least place by which we are commanded to be incorporated by baptism into the Mystical Body of Christ, which is the Church, and to remain united to Christ and to His Vicar, through whom He Himself in a visible manner governs the Church on earth.

Therefore, no one will be saved who, knowing the Church to have been divinely established by Christ, nevertheless refuses to submit to the Church or withholds obedience from the Roman Pontiff, the Vicar of Christ on earth.

Not only did the Savior command that all nations should enter the Church, but He also decreed the Church to be a means of salvation without which no one can enter the kingdom of eternal glory.

In His infinite mercy God has willed that the effects, necessary for one to be saved, of those helps to salvation which are directed toward man’s final end, not by intrinsic necessity, but only by divine institution, can also be obtained in certain circumstances when those helps are used only in desire and longing. This we see clearly stated in the Sacred Council of Trent, both in reference to the sacrament of regeneration and in reference to the sacrament of penance (, nn. 797, 807).

The same in its own degree must be asserted of the Church, in as far as she is the general help to salvation. Therefore, that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member, but it is necessary that at least he be united to her by desire and longing.

However, this desire need not always be explicit, as it is in catechumens; but when a person is involved in invincible ignorance God accepts also an implicit desire, so called because it is included in that good disposition of soul whereby a person wishes his will to be conformed to the will of God.

These things are clearly taught in that dogmatic letter which was issued by the Sovereign Pontiff, Pope Pius XII, on June 29, 1943, (AAS, Vol. 35, an. 1943, p. 193 ff.). For in this letter the Sovereign Pontiff clearly distinguishes between those who are actually incorporated into the Church as members, and those who are united to the Church only by desire.

Discussing the members of which the Mystical Body is-composed here on earth, the same august Pontiff says: “Actually only those are to be included as members of the Church who have been baptized and profess the true faith, and who have not been so unfortunate as to separate themselves from the unity of the Body, or been excluded by legitimate authority for grave faults committed.”

Toward the end of this same encyclical letter, when most affectionately inviting to unity those who do not belong to the body of the Catholic Church, he mentions those who “are related to the Mystical Body of the Redeemer by a certain unconscious yearning and desire,” and these he by no means excludes from eternal salvation, but on the other hand states that they are in a condition “in which they cannot be sure of their salvation” since “they still remain deprived of those many heavenly gifts and helps which can only be enjoyed in the Catholic Church” (AAS, 1. c., p. 243). With these wise words he reproves both those who exclude from eternal salvation all united to the Church only by implicit desire, and those who falsely assert that men can be saved equally well in every religion (cf. Pope Pius IX, Allocution, , in , n. 1641 ff.; also Pope Pius IX in the encyclical letter, , in , n. 1677).

But it must not be thought that any kind of desire of entering the Church suffices that one may be saved. It is necessary that the desire by which one is related to the Church be animated by perfect charity. Nor can an implicit desire produce its effect, unless a person has supernatural faith: “For he who comes to God must believe that God exists and is a rewarder of those who seek Him” (Heb. 11:6). The Council of Trent declares (Session VI, chap. 8): “Faith is the beginning of man’s salvation, the foundation and root of all justification, without which it is impossible to please God and attain to the fellowship of His children” (, n. 801).

From what has been said it is evident that those things which are proposed in the periodical , fascicle 3, as the genuine teaching of the Catholic Church are far from being such and are very harmful both to those within the Church and those without.

From these declarations which pertain to doctrine, certain conclusions follow which regard discipline and conduct, and which cannot be unknown to those who vigorously defend the necessity by which all are bound of belonging to the true Church and of submitting to the authority of the Roman Pontiff and of the Bishops “whom the Holy Ghost has placed . . . to rule the Church” (Acts 20:28).

Hence, one cannot understand how the St. Benedict Center can consistently claim to be a Catholic school and wish to be accounted such, and yet not conform to the prescriptions of canons 1381 and 1382 of the Code of Canon Law, and continue to exist as a source of discord and rebellion against ecclesiastical authority and as a source of the disturbance of many consciences.

Furthermore, it is beyond understanding how a member of a religious Institute, namely Father Feeney, presents himself as a “Defender of the Faith,” and at the same time does not hesitate to attack the catechetical instruction proposed by lawful authorities, and has not even feared to incur grave sanctions threatened by the sacred canons because of his serious violations of his duties as a religious, a priest, and an ordinary member of the Church.

Finally, it is in no wise to be tolerated that certain Catholics shall claim for themselves the right to publish a periodical, for the purpose of spreading theological doctrines, without the permission of competent Church authority, called the ““ which is prescribed by the sacred canons.

Therefore, let them who in grave peril are ranged against the Church seriously bear in mind that after “Rome has spoken” they cannot be excused even by reasons of good faith. Certainly, their bond and duty of obedience toward the Church is much graver than that of those who as yet are related to the Church “only by an unconscious desire.” Let them realize that they are children of the Church, lovingly nourished by her with the milk of doctrine and the sacraments, and hence, having heard the clear voice of their Mother, they cannot be excused from culpable ignorance, and therefore to them apply without any restriction that principle: submission to the Catholic Church and to the Sovereign Pontiff is required as necessary for salvation.

In sending this letter, I declare my profound esteem, and remain,

Your Excellency’s most devoted,

F. Cardinal Marchetti-Selvaggiani.

A. Ottaviani, Assessor.

Holy Office, 8 Aug., 1949.


Pius XII – Decree Excommunicating Leonard Feeney, 13 February 1953

Prior to the excommunication, Feeney received the following summons to appear before the Holy Office from Cardinal Pizzardo on November 22, 1952.

The Holy Office has been obliged repeatedly to make your teaching and conduct in the Church the object of its special care and attention, and recently, after having again carefully examined and calmly weighed all the evidence collected in your cause, it has found it necessary to bring this question to a conclusion.

DECREE

THE PRIEST LEONARD FEENEY IS DECLARED EXCOMMUNICATED

Since the priest Leonard Feeney, a resident of Boston (Saint Benedict Center), who for a long time has been suspended a divinis for grave disobedience toward church authority, has not, despite repeated warnings and threats of incurring excommunication ipso facto, come to his senses, the Most Eminent and Reverend Fathers, charged with safeguarding matters of faith and morals, have, in a Plenary Session held on Wednesday 4 February 1953, declared him excommunicated with all the effects of the law.

On Thursday, 12 February 1953, our Most Holy Lord Pius XII, by Divine Providence Pope, approved and confirmed the decree of the Most Eminent Fathers, and ordered that it be made a matter of public law.

Given at Rome, at the headquarters of the Holy Office, 13 February 1953.

Marius Crovini, Notary

AAS (February 16, 1953) Vol. XXXXV, Page 100




Pope Pius XII



(06-24-2011, 02:22 AM)wulfrano Wrote: [ -> ]Richard J. Cushing, Archbishop of Boston – Decree Regarding Leonard Feeney, April 18, 1949................................... This important Letter of the Holy Office is introduced by a letter of the Most Reverend Archbishop of Boston.

+Cushing, FYI, was in cahoots with the esteemed Harvard University - EENS was deemed *by him* as being offensive to university contributors. - again, just FYI and FWIW. Does it strike you as coincidence at all that even today, a "Harvard Graduate" is virtually guaranteed a place of highest position - regardless of the field?


(06-24-2011, 02:22 AM)wulfrano Wrote: [ -> ]From the Headquarters of the Holy Office, Aug. 8, 1949.

Accordingly, the Most Eminent and Most Reverend Cardinals of this Supreme Congregation, in a plenary session held on Wednesday, July 27, 1949, decreed, and the august Pontiff in an audience on the following Thursday, July 28, 1949, deigned to give his approval, that the following explanations pertinent to the doctrine, and also that invitations and exhortations relevant to discipline be given:

This explains and proves plainly that the Pope gave his approval  based on what the Cardinals  decreed - not on what Fr. Feeney taught.

You believe (rightfully) that the masons have infiltrated the Church - do you believe this infiltration was years, decades - perhaps centuries in the making or do you admit it was instantaneous?

(06-24-2011, 02:22 AM)wulfrano Wrote: [ -> ]We are bound by divine and Catholic faith to believe all those things which are contained in the word of God, whether it be Scripture or Tradition, and are proposed by the Church to be believed as divinely revealed, not only through solemn judgment but also through the ordinary and universal teaching office (, n. 1792).

Now, among those things which the Church has always preached and will never cease to preach is contained also that infallible statement by which we are taught that there is no salvation outside the Church.

However, this dogma must be understood in that sense in which the Church herself understands it. For, it was not to private judgments that Our Savior gave for explanation those things that are contained in the deposit of faith, but to the teaching authority of the Church.

Now, in the first place, the Church teaches that in this matter there is question of a most strict command of Jesus Christ. For He explicitly enjoined on His apostles to teach all nations to observe all things whatsoever He Himself had commanded (Matt. 28: 19-20).

Now, among the commandments of Christ, that one holds not the least place by which we are commanded to be incorporated by baptism into the Mystical Body of Christ, which is the Church, and to remain united to Christ and to His Vicar, through whom He Himself in a visible manner governs the Church on earth.

Therefore, no one will be saved who, knowing the Church to have been divinely established by Christ, nevertheless refuses to submit to the Church or withholds obedience from the Roman Pontiff, the Vicar of Christ on earth.

Not only did the Savior command that all nations should enter the Church, but He also decreed the Church to be a means of salvation without which no one can enter the kingdom of eternal glory.

Now - I am assuming that you have at least a somewhat clear understanding of the tactics modernists use. If my assumption is correct, then you will see this tactic demonstrated below. FYI, red = lies, blue = truth. . . . . . . .also please keep in mind that this was from Cardinals - not the pope.

Quote:
In His infinite mercy God has willed that the effects, necessary for one to be saved, of those helps to salvation which are directed toward man’s final end, not by intrinsic necessity, but only by divine institution, can also be obtained in certain circumstances when those helps are used only in desire and longing.This we see clearly stated in the Sacred Council of Trent, both in reference to the sacrament of regeneration and in reference to the sacrament of penance (, nn. 797, 807).

The same in its own degree must be asserted of the Church, in as far as she is the general help to salvation. Therefore, that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member, but it is necessary that at least he be united to her by desire and longing.

However, this desire need not always be explicit, as it is in catechumens; but when a person is involved in invincible ignorance God accepts also an implicit desire, so called because it is included in that good disposition of soul whereby a person wishes his will to be conformed to the will of God.
(06-23-2011, 07:47 PM)wulfrano Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-23-2011, 12:33 PM)UnamSanctam Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-23-2011, 08:09 AM)Stubborn Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-22-2011, 06:01 PM)wulfrano Wrote: [ -> ]The lifting of the excommunication is null and void since it was made by the infiltrated Talmudic Jew Paul VI.

Ahh, ok.

FWIW, I understand and sympathize with sede's, but I will say that the "Chair is empty" for only the time between the death of the current pope and the election of the next.

In truth, the popes have been the only thing preserving what Tradition is left in the Church. Without them the conciliar modernists would have completely destroyed the Church.


Cardinal Ottaviani and Cardinal Bacci both told Paul VI that his mass was a fraud.

Essentially yes, and in a beautiful and harmless matter. They received remonstration and ignorance from the modernists, in response to their eloquent efforts to preserve orthodoxy.
@ Stubborn.

Stubborn has said: "You believe (rightfully) that the masons have infiltrated the Church - do you believe this infiltration was years, decades - perhaps centuries in the making or do you admit it was instantaneous? "

I believe that the masons infiltrated the Church in the times of Pope Clement XIV when they asked him prior to election whether he would supress the Jesuits and that on that condition they would have him elected Pope... which of course he and they did.

Private Letter to Card. Cushing Wrote:the Church has always preached and will never cease to preach is contained also that infallible statement by which we are taught that there is no salvation outside the Church.
Pope Pius XII Wrote:Actually only those are to be included as members of the Church who have been baptized and profess the true faith, and who have not been so unfortunate as to separate themselves from the unity of the Body, or been excluded by legitimate authority for grave faults committed.

Quote: But it must not be thought that any kind of desire of entering the Church suffices that one may be saved. It is necessary that the desire by which one is related to the Church be animated by perfect charity. Nor can an implicit desire produce its effect, unless a person has supernatural faith:


Well, so much for "implicit" desire.

This letter is a fallible document repudiated by Pope Pius XII and never published in the AAS.  It is labeled a protocal, which means it is worthless with regards to this discussion.  Here is what Pope Pius XII had to say, obviously referencing this travesty of a letter:
Pope Pius XII Wrote:Some reduce to a meaningless formula the necessity of belonging to the true Church in order to gain eternal salvation. Others finally belittle the reasonable character of the credibility of Christian faith.

28. These and like errors, it is clear, have crept in among certain of Our sons who are deceived by imprudent zeal for souls
(06-25-2011, 12:18 AM)James02 Wrote: [ -> ]
Private Letter to Card. Cushing Wrote:the Church has always preached and will never cease to preach is contained also that infallible statement by which we are taught that there is no salvation outside the Church.
Pope Pius XII Wrote:Actually only those are to be included as members of the Church who have been baptized and profess the true faith, and who have not been so unfortunate as to separate themselves from the unity of the Body, or been excluded by legitimate authority for grave faults committed.

Quote: But it must not be thought that any kind of desire of entering the Church suffices that one may be saved. It is necessary that the desire by which one is related to the Church be animated by perfect charity. Nor can an implicit desire produce its effect, unless a person has supernatural faith:


Well, so much for "implicit" desire.

This letter is a fallible document repudiated by Pope Pius XII and never published in the AAS.  It is labeled a protocal, which means it is worthless with regards to this discussion.  Here is what Pope Pius XII had to say, obviously referencing this travesty of a letter:
Pope Pius XII Wrote:Some reduce to a meaningless formula the necessity of belonging to the true Church in order to gain eternal salvation. Others finally belittle the reasonable character of the credibility of Christian faith.

28. These and like errors, it is clear, have crept in among certain of Our sons who are deceived by imprudent zeal for souls


"Since the priest Leonard Feeney, a resident of Boston (Saint Benedict Center), who for a long time has been suspended a divinis for grave disobedience toward church authority, has not, despite repeated warnings and threats of incurring excommunication ipso facto, come to his senses, the Most Eminent and Reverend Fathers, charged with safeguarding matters of faith and morals, have, in a Plenary Session held on Wednesday 4 February 1953, declared him excommunicated with all the effects of the law."


Please, Gaddafi, do come to your senses!
He was excommunicated for disobeying.  I don't deny that.  He was also reconciled with the Church, and his priests/monks still profess what he (and the Church) have always professed.  There is absolutely no salvation outside of the Church.
(06-25-2011, 12:40 AM)James02 Wrote: [ -> ]He was excommunicated for disobeying.  I don't deny that.  He was also reconciled with the Church, and his priests/monks still profess what he (and the Church) have always professed.  There is absolutely no salvation outside of the Church.

He was never reconciled with the Church.  He was reconciled with a Destroyer of the Church,i.e., Paul VI. 
(06-25-2011, 12:40 AM)James02 Wrote: [ -> ]He was excommunicated for disobeying.  I don't deny that.  He was also reconciled with the Church, and his priests/monks still profess what he (and the Church) have always professed.  There is absolutely no salvation outside of the Church.

@Gaddafi.

"Now, among those things which the Church has always preached and will never cease to preach is contained also that infallible statement by which we are taught that there is no salvation outside the Church. However, this dogma must be understood in that sense in which the Church herself understands it. For, it was not to private judgments that Our Savior gave for explanation those things that are contained in the deposit of faith, but to the teaching authority of the Church."

(06-24-2011, 08:40 PM)wulfrano Wrote: [ -> ]@ Stubborn.

Stubborn has said: "You believe (rightfully) that the masons have infiltrated the Church - do you believe this infiltration was years, decades - perhaps centuries in the making or do you admit it was instantaneous? "

I believe that the masons infiltrated the Church in the times of Pope Clement XIV when they asked him prior to election whether he would supress the Jesuits and that on that condition they would have him elected Pope... which of course he and they did.

I have no idea how long ago the infiltrators started their infiltration, so I will agree with you that it started some +200 years ago.

So by the time Fr. Feeney was shanghaied, the enemy had approximately 170 years time to get themselves at least partially situated.

For a moment, consider yourself  the enemy. Wouldn't your primary mission be to continue to slowly promote the mission of the past 170 years, namely, salvation outside the Church? Wouldn't your mission entail slamming the door asap on anyone who stood in your way? I could continue on with this scenario but I think you get the clue.

Well, this is pretty much what happened - I am not naming +Cushing as a mason, perhaps he was or perhaps he was just a dupe, regardless, +Cushing should have known better. Perhaps had +Cushing stood for the faith instead of  Harvard, he too would have been slandered - who knows? IMO, Pope St. Pius X sent the enemy underground for a while - they started re-surfacing sometime before the time of the "Boston Heresy Case". 

Regardless of all that, the fact is, no one can ever be rightfully excommunicated for echoing what the Church has always taught and infallibly declared - it really is as simple as that. Being excommunicated for disobedience, as was the case, is something entirely different - which is why there was no need for any abjuration.