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Full Version: Is this where over emphasis on the Apparitions at Fatima leads?
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(05-08-2011, 12:04 AM)crusaderfortruth3372 Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-07-2011, 08:45 PM)timoose Wrote: [ -> ]Like Fr. Malachi Martin, James 02, I was a grievous sinner, and I was away from the Church for nearly forty years, but Fr Malachi Martin through his books and tapes helped me come back. I believe men can change with God's Grace, and I find it peculiar when others do not allow this possibility.

tim

Same with me, amazing how an overnight show like Art Bell can do that for someone... God works in amazing ways! And I'm sure Fr. Malachi Martin's conversion to Traditional Catholicism(back in the 80's?) was a miracle all in itself!

He was in favor of Traditional Catholicism since at least the late seventies. The SSPX magazine The Angelus had an article about him that was published in 1978, and he said in that article that he regretted some of his earlier writings, and also mentioned that the only Mass he has ever said was the Traditional Mass. The article is online somewhere.
The problem with answer number three is it omits the warnings Our Lady delivered at God Almighty's behest.  This is very dangerous ground.  Certainly it adds nothing new, Our Lord gave us everything, but God's Mercy is warning us we are headed for destruction.

tim
RE: Fr. Martin,  You have to remember that there was no real substantial "Traditional Movement" back in the 60s and early 70s.  Fr. Martin was never a liberal.  He was in a mix of theologians who were running a whole palette of acceptable theology back then and by orthodox standards.  In "The Jesuits" he points out that only after 1965 did the crazy modernist heretics start to show their true colors.   

Also, the pre-conciliar Church was far from perfect and far from holy, (which is why God let it be dissolved)  They talked the talk, but didn't walk the walk.  Fr. Martin wrote scathingly about people like Card. Ottaviani because he was abusive of his power, not because of his orthodoxy. 
Fr. Martin called it "the rot" that Pope Pius XII was trying to keep a lid on. 

Fr. Martin was an equal opportunity offender of people's sensibilities.  He was charitable to everyone but unafraid to point out their errors.  His audio interviews about John XXIII are the most revealing in this.  You could tell that he loved the man personally but his job was to be a "Pope's man" as a Jesuit and he knew that the Pope was "theologically ignorant" " a liberal"  "a wily peasant" and that his piety was genuine but it didn't give him enlightenment as to his errors. Errors that were costly to the Church and costly to the Pope's soul.  He was also instantaneous in his critique of Vatican II as a disaster, the only people of note  who saw it that quickly were Fr. Gommar De Pauw, Fr. Vincent Miceli and Cardinal Siri and  with LeFebvre, Thuc and De Castro Mayer following behind quickly.  Each dealt with it in their own way.  He was always denouncing evolution as bad science with social and religious repercussions. 

You also have to remember that Fr. Martin didn't change his theology or his faith, he changed the audiences he was addressing.  His early theologically/slanted  books are the attempt to reach his peers, theologians and clergy.  He was trying to fufill Pope John's request that the same doctrine be taught in new formulations.  (I would submit that Joseph Ratzinger was also trying to do this, with less actual success)   Instead as he pointed out in interviews and his writings, new doctrines were introduced to fit into old formulations.  "They finesse the language, ' Oh ,yes we believe in papal infallibility but it's not what you think it is'."

He wrote for the intellectual elite with his evaluations of the religious landscape of the world,  then he turned his attention to Vatican politics and finally he was trying to reach out to the Catholic people in the pews and the ones that listened and understood were the traditionalists and some conservatives. 

Cat's pyjamas! Besides, Fr Gruner is a Canuck. But did you know that a 'Grunerite' is
Wikipedia Wrote:a mineral of the amphibole group of minerals with formula Fe7Si8O22(OH)2. It is the iron endmember of the grunerite-cummingtonite series. It forms as fibrous, columnar or massive aggregates of crystals. The crystals are monoclinic prismatic. The luster is glassy to pearly with colors ranging from green, brown to dark grey. The Mohs hardness is 5 to 6 and the specific gravity is 3.4 to 3.5.

It was discovered in 1853 and named for Louis Gruner, a Swiss-French chemist who first analysed it. Grunerite is also known commercially by the name amosite from the name Asbestos Mines Of South Africa (AMOSA).
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(05-07-2011, 03:19 PM)charlesh Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-07-2011, 02:59 PM)st.dominic_savio Wrote: [ -> ]How is Fr. Malachi Martin a traitor? "Spinning his BS till the end"? Give me a break. If it wasn't for Malachi Martin who knows where many traditionalists (including myself) would be right now. You need to take that comment back Adam.

Go ask that question on Angelqueen.org. On second thought, don't. It's a hot button over there and there's no sense starting a fire.

I've listened to all of Malachi Martin's talks, and it's very enlightening. But he's had a lot of enemies, and lately people have made it their business to dig up dirt on him. Is it all true? probably not. Is some of it true? I couldn't tell you. It basically boils down to, "Malachi Martin was a crypto-Jew in cahoots with the Anti-Defamation League." I know that as more and more people jump on the "Malachi Martin was a Traitor" bandwagon, Gerard here at fisheaters has been defending Fr. Martin's good name, so you might pm him. Personally, I just don't have the time for it. A man with that many enemies, for that long, must have been doing something right. His talks are good, that's all I know.


Fr Malachi Martin was a traitor to the modernist gang in the Vatican, and first to  his boss the cardinal Bea.
(05-09-2011, 03:30 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: [ -> ]Cat's pyjamas! Besides, Fr Gruner is a Canuck. But did you know that a 'Grunerite' is
Wikipedia Wrote:a mineral of the amphibole group of minerals with formula Fe7Si8O22(OH)2. It is the iron endmember of the grunerite-cummingtonite series. It forms as fibrous, columnar or massive aggregates of crystals. The crystals are monoclinic prismatic. The luster is glassy to pearly with colors ranging from green, brown to dark grey. The Mohs hardness is 5 to 6 and the specific gravity is 3.4 to 3.5.

It was discovered in 1853 and named for Louis Gruner, a Swiss-French chemist who first analysed it. Grunerite is also known commercially by the name amosite from the name Asbestos Mines Of South Africa (AMOSA).
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Jovan, if grunerite= amosite, that means that Fr Gruner and those who support him are fireproof. Even at the stake the Vatican is unable to burn them. Good news!
Fatima will triumph nextly.
(05-09-2011, 03:46 PM)maso Wrote: [ -> ]Fr Malachi Martin was a traitor to the modernist gang in the Vatican, and first to  his boss the cardinal Bea.

Bea was not a modernist.  He was first and foremost an old school Jesuit who was loyal to the Pope to a fault, whether it be Pius XII or John XXIII or Paul VI, though he apparently saw more of John's vision for the Church than Paul's.   It was Bea who was trying to convince John XXIII to release the 3rd secret of Fatima.  Fr. Martin critiqued Bea's degradation  following Vatican II in his efforts to salvage something from it.  He described Bea as "having fallen between two chairs."    Archbishop LeFebvre never crticized Bea's orthodoxy, he referred to Bea as  an "instrument of betrayal"  not a traitor himself.   

Fr. Martin and everyone else who was anybody testified to Bea's orthodoxy.  His book "On the Unity of Christians" sounds more like Bishop Williamson in tone than Walter Kaspar.  When asked what  the final goal of "unity" meant, he replied, "...Unity would not be perfect, however unless it included submissiveness to those commissioned by God to guide and rule us in matters of faith and of practice, that is, to the shepherds of the flock, successors of the apostles, united among themselves and united with the chief shepherd, the successor of St. Peter, the Bishop of Rome.  And this probably is the hardest among the requests we will have to make of our beloved Protestant brethren, who for many centuries have been taught that in the Church of Christ there is no authority that could bind individual conscience of each of the faithful.  The democratic idea which is today dominant in a great part of the free world stresses and strengthens this feeling of religious autonomy.  The apostle of unity must therefore have a clear and concrete view of the hierarchical structure of the Church, founded by by Christ..."   
Not that I believe this at all but according to this website listed in the OP, the Seventh apparition is just 13 hours away.
This is from Gerard,
"Also, the pre-conciliar Church was far from perfect and far from holy, (which is why God let it be dissolved)  They talked the talk, but didn't walk the walk.  Fr. Martin wrote scathingly about people like Card. Ottaviani because he was abusive of his power, not because of his orthodoxy. 
Fr. Martin called it "the rot" that Pope Pius XII was trying to keep a lid on."

When I re-read this something sunk in. The problem with the pre Concilar Church was it's abuse of power. The conservative Cardinals kept their foot on the neck of the liberals ( not capital). They made it overly tough for everyone. Here's the reason as he has pointed out. They had held on to the reins and ran the Church like DI's because they had closed the barn door after the horses had gone during the Protestant Revolt. Thus Pope John XXIII along with others believing the horrors of the 20th century were gone and everything would be better in future called the Council. Little did he know he was walking into a trap.
Remember that Jesus sailed into the Pharisees for making it too hard for the lowly, and many had become like them. 

tim
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