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Full Version: Voris responds to Shea... This is getting good
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(08-01-2011, 05:12 PM)Joshua Wrote: [ -> ]
(08-01-2011, 04:56 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote: [ -> ]
(08-01-2011, 04:55 PM)Joshua Wrote: [ -> ]Who composed the Liturgy, Augstine?

It was written by a lot of different people.

Let's try that again: Who gave us the Liturgy, Augstine?

Just spell out whatever it is you're trying to say.

Try doing it without grammar, logic and theology.
(08-01-2011, 05:25 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote: [ -> ]
(08-01-2011, 05:12 PM)Joshua Wrote: [ -> ]Let's try that again: Who gave us the Liturgy, Augstine?

Just spell out whatever it is you're trying to say.

Try doing it without grammar, logic and theology.

Seriously?
The fact that the answer to my question isn't obvious to you is quite telling. Here's a hint: What occurred on Holy Thursday?

(08-01-2011, 05:28 PM)Joshua Wrote: [ -> ]
(08-01-2011, 05:25 PM)Augstine Baker Wrote: [ -> ]
(08-01-2011, 05:12 PM)Joshua Wrote: [ -> ]Let's try that again: Who gave us the Liturgy, Augstine?

Just spell out whatever it is you're trying to say.

Try doing it without grammar, logic and theology.

Seriously?
The fact that the answer to my question isn't obvious to you is quite telling. Here's a hint: What occurred on Holy Thursday?

Just spell out what you're going to say.

Being comes before Liturgy.  You might even say that being, becomes the celestrial Liturgy and that all created being is like that, but speaking specifically of Liturgy, you can't have it without the Being, in any event, and the Liturgy itself has no meaning outside of the Dogma.

The Anglicans have Liturgy as do the Ortthodox, but especially in the case of the Anglicans, Liturgy becomes meaningless.
Augstine Baker Wrote:Just spell out what you're going to say.
Christ, sir. Christ gave us the Liturgy. He gave it to the Apostles on Maundy Thursday to be perpetuated by them and their successors until the end of time. The Liturgy was given to us by God as the most efficacious means of grace, the means to propitiate the wrath of God and the most perfect form of worship to be rendered to Him (i.e. the end and purpose of life itself).

Augstine Baker Wrote:Being comes before Liturgy
What are you talking about? Are you claiming that there was a point in man's existence where he did not render worship to God?

Augstine Baker Wrote:The Anglicans have Liturgy as do the Ortthodox, but especially in the case of the Anglicans, Liturgy becomes meaningless.
Any form of attempted worship of God that exists outside the confines of Holy Mother Church is false worship and hence false liturgy. Even in the case of the Orthodox who possess valid Sacraments, the merit of those Sacraments is null when it is done (or received) in willful adherence to their schism. In other words there is no Liturgy (worship) outside the Church.

Augstine Baker Wrote:the Liturgy itself has no meaning outside of the Dogma.
Dogma has no meaning, purpose or use if it does not lead man to worship God.

... you teach Catechesis, Augstine ... ?
(08-01-2011, 06:16 PM)Joshua Wrote: [ -> ]Christ, sir. Christ gave us the Liturgy. He gave it to the Apostles on Maundy Thursday to be perpetuated by them and their successors until the end of time. The Liturgy was given to us by God as the most efficacious means of grace, the means to propitiate the wrath of God and the most perfect form of worship to be rendered to Him (i.e. the end and purpose of life itself).

That's not really accurate is it?  Christ gave us the sacrifice and the sacrament of  which four root liturgies were developed by the Apostles.  After that,the Church eventually developed those four root liturgies into the 20 plus liturgies that are valid rites within the Church. 

Obviously Christ did not actually give the rubrics for the TLM, the Byzantine, the Maronite and  Syro Malabar plus all the other rites at the Last Supper. 
(08-03-2011, 04:51 PM)Gerard Wrote: [ -> ]
(08-01-2011, 06:16 PM)Joshua Wrote: [ -> ]Christ, sir. Christ gave us the Liturgy. He gave it to the Apostles on Maundy Thursday to be perpetuated by them and their successors until the end of time. The Liturgy was given to us by God as the most efficacious means of grace, the means to propitiate the wrath of God and the most perfect form of worship to be rendered to Him (i.e. the end and purpose of life itself).

Christ gave us the sacrifice and the sacrament of  which four root liturgies were developed by the Apostles.

Precisely. I see no inaccuracies in my post. I stated nothing more than the fact that Christ instituted liturgical worship for the Church as the most perfect means of rendering adoration to God. I said nothing of any specific rite or usage.
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