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Full Version: Look how the German-Americans treated Polish-Americans in the Church
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Bumped bc I'm a Milwaukee polish German Irish Catholic.
I like the ethnic nationalism of the old, pre-"enlightened" period. It's too bad that love of one's own nation cannot come without a corresponding hate for others. Too many people make this error, including Catholics. 
It's simply natural for an ethnicity to have an "other".  It's what happens when we define ourselves.
I don't mind benevolent nationalism. Catholicdom is too small for fellow Catyholics to be hating each other, though. Not when there are legions of real enemies out there.

Plus, our squabbles will look really stupid if we ever discover aliens.
(08-04-2011, 12:33 PM)salus Wrote: [ -> ]http://www.newoxfordreview.org/article.j...-gawronski

Go back a few decades and see how the Irish treated the Germans! My German grandfather, who had the audacity to be born on St Patrick's Day in an Irish parish, left the Church as a boy because if an Irish kid vomited in school, he had to clean it up because he was a German! >sad
(08-04-2011, 05:04 PM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote: [ -> ]I don't mind benevolent nationalism. Catholicdom is too small for fellow Catyholics to be hating each other, though. Not when there are legions of real enemies out there.

Plus, our squabbles will look really stupid if we ever discover aliens.

Yeah, I have mixed feelings. I want to support nationalism because I hate globalism but I know that this same globalism has shrunk the divisions between real Catholics. 
the author seems to focus on the treatment of the modern American Church in suppression of Immigrant culture and the "Irish" leading American assimilation if the Polish, and only briefly mentions German-Polish relations at the beginning of the article as they were 100 years ago, thread title a little misleading

(08-04-2011, 01:03 PM)mistman Wrote: [ -> ]I like the ethnic nationalism of the old, pre-"enlightened" period. It's too bad that love of one's own nation cannot come without a corresponding hate for others. Too many people make this error, including Catholics. 
nationalism as we know it only emerged in the beginning of the 19th century, in the period you alluded about in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth to be "Polish" meant you were part of the nobility
The article was good to a point. Being a Polish priest, he has the usual HUGE blind spot regarding JPII. The destruction he bemoans post VII can be laid right at the feet of his hero. My mother's family is all Polish, and my wife's family is both sides Polish. You'd think JPII was the Second Coming hanging around these folks.

The ethnic differences are pretty much all gone now, lots of wreckovations took care of that. It's all bland Novus Ordo blah blah wherever you go, at least around here.
(08-04-2011, 10:26 PM)cunctas_haereses Wrote: [ -> ]The article was good to a point. Being a Polish priest, he has the usual HUGE blind spot regarding JPII. The destruction he bemoans post VII can be laid right at the feet of his hero. My mother's family is all Polish, and my wife's family is both sides Polish. You'd think JPII was the Second Coming hanging around these folks.

The ethnic differences are pretty much all gone now, lots of wreckovations took care of that. It's all bland Novus Ordo blah blah wherever you go, at least around here.

Quote:St. Ignatius taught that “poverty has always been the bulwark of true religion.” Perhaps Bl. John Paul II was sent from what was a poor European country to remind us of that.

Is this the usual HUGE blind spot you are referring to?

I'm getting a little bit tired of JPII having all the destruction laid at his feet. If anyone brought about the destruction of the Church, I think it should be laid at the feet of  "Boss Tweed Catholicism". Yes, I just coined the term. That would be the Irish Bishops in this country who the Poles wisely did not trust, and decided to quit kicking money upstairs. The power elite in the American Church, read the Irish, set the standard for not listening to whoever the Supreme Pontiff may be. After reading this story, I understand even better as to the reasons why the Poles went into schism.

I'm not saying there aren't many holy Irish priests or Irish people. But. let's face facts already, the Irish Bishops became a mob just like the Daley Machine in Chicago and like I said before, Boss Tweed and Tameny Hall in NY.

So what was JPII suppossed to do? Fire all the bishops in the world. And then fire all the priests? Yet Malachi Martin, who was working for B'nai B'rith as a spy during VII is a hero around here. And how about John Courtney Murray's involvement with CIA Front Time Magazine?

Bottom line: The Poles mortgaged their homes for the Faith, while the Irish skimmed off the top.

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