FishEaters Traditional Catholic Forums

Full Version: Vatican, Lutherans Preparing Document on Reformation
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6
(08-31-2011, 07:05 PM)Someone1776 Wrote: [ -> ]I will only accept a mea culpa if it states the Church was way too slow and soft in responding to Luther. 

Definitely.

I'd say there could be one "mea culpa", and it's this: the human element of the Holy Church was at fault in the early 1500's for being an insanely complacent entity. It was the inevitable result of, in business terms, having a monopoly on faith in western Europe for centuries. Even the Early and High Middle Ages provided the Faith with plenty of healthy competition in the forms of Paganism and militant Islam, but in the Renaissance we were too busy fighting ourselves in the Hundred Years' War, the Wars of the Roses, and especially those stupid Italian Wars that no one cares about.

So by the time Luther came around, Church authorities thought they could just toss him under the bus and move on. Obviously, that was a mistake.
(08-31-2011, 07:19 PM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote: [ -> ]Even the Early and High Middle Ages provided the Faith with plenty of healthy competition in the forms of Paganism and militant Islam...

Indeed, and we do have now that sort of competition, even bigger today than it was then, with secularism being on the rise. Yet, instead of strengthening the human element of The Church, of making it stat y on it's toes and reinforce itself, things have moved the other way, with all efforts being done to embrace the world.
Lutherans especially American ones are strange. I had a friend and co-worker that was one, and he always said he was Catholic ? Huh ? He had about 80-90 % of modern Catholic DNA so to speak. He and his wife would pop into the local parish for whatever as if they were parishoners. I mean for  talks or bible study. He used to blow my mind. Just a little anecdote.

tim
(08-31-2011, 07:05 PM)Someone1776 Wrote: [ -> ]
(08-31-2011, 06:19 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote: [ -> ]A "mutual" mea culpa?

I'm sorry, but get the f**k out.

I will only accept a mea culpa if it states the Church was way too slow and soft in responding to Luther. 

This
This is exactly the sort of thing that shakes and weakens my young, neophyte faith. If the Church so easily swings upon the winds of modernism and liberalism, who is to say that it isn't just a man-made institution? This outward appearance of tolerance-at-all-costs and other pernicious nonsense only tells me that God is either not with this Church, or the Church is ignoring God. One or the other is a very bad sign...  :(
(08-31-2011, 07:19 PM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote: [ -> ]
(08-31-2011, 07:05 PM)Someone1776 Wrote: [ -> ]I will only accept a mea culpa if it states the Church was way too slow and soft in responding to Luther. 

Definitely.

I'd say there could be one "mea culpa", and it's this: the human element of the Holy Church was at fault in the early 1500's for being an insanely complacent entity. It was the inevitable result of, in business terms, having a monopoly on faith in western Europe for centuries. Even the Early and High Middle Ages provided the Faith with plenty of healthy competition in the forms of Paganism and militant Islam, but in the Renaissance we were too busy fighting ourselves in the Hundred Years' War, the Wars of the Roses, and especially those stupid Italian Wars that no one cares about.

So by the time Luther came around, Church authorities thought they could just toss him under the bus and move on. Obviously, that was a mistake.

There are few things more maddening than reading about the church's initial reaction to Luther.  Makes the current church leadership look strong and proactive in comparison.  
(08-31-2011, 07:54 PM)Laetare Wrote: [ -> ]This is exactly the sort of thing that shakes and weakens my young, neophyte faith. If the Church so easily swings upon the winds of modernism and liberalism, who is to say that it isn't just a man-made institution? This outward appearance of tolerance-at-all-costs and other pernicious nonsense only tells me that God is either not with this Church, or the Church is ignoring God. One or the other is a very bad sign...  :(

As you learn more about the history of the Church you will realize the Church has been in a constant state of crisis since the beginning. We're always dealing with some heresy, and as soon as we knock one down a new one appears.  However, despite the constant crisis of the Church the faith has remained pure and uncorrupted over 2,000 years. Christ promised Hell would never breach the gates of the church, but that comment also implied Hell would constantly be trying to breach those gates.  The fact that the church has dealt with so many crises, yet always emerged triumphant helps sustain my faith.  Someday we will lick modernism. Then we will have peace for about a year and then some new crisis will start. 

(08-31-2011, 07:54 PM)Laetare Wrote: [ -> ]This is exactly the sort of thing that shakes and weakens my young, neophyte faith. If the Church so easily swings upon the winds of modernism and liberalism, who is to say that it isn't just a man-made institution? This outward appearance of tolerance-at-all-costs and other pernicious nonsense only tells me that God is either not with this Church, or the Church is ignoring God. One or the other is a very bad sign...  :(

The Church with its eternal truths started by Christ has not changed one iota. Unfortunately we live in a time where many leaders in the Church are vague at best. There are some really great Bishops and priests out there, you just have to find them. Remember, even St. Peter denied Christ 3 times, after he was told he was going to. You would imagine something better from our first Pope hand picked and taught by Christ Himself. But the reality is that he is a flawed human, as we all are. The Pope could have 3 wives and 14 kids, it doesn't change one thing in the faith, it just makes him a poor Pope. We have to know our faith and follow in the foot steps of others who have been down similar roads as ours- St. Thomas More is an example. As is the obvious choice of St. Athanasius.

Cheer up! We have the mantle of the Blessed Mother to protect us, nothing can touch us! ;D
Oh, I don't know why the Church does these silly things when the SSPX are still standing out in the cold.  :doh:  We ought to get our own house in order first and approach the rest once we've gone back to teaching the real Catholic faith.

From what I've picked up in conversation, these joint statements irk devout Lutherans just as much as devout Catholics. Nobody sane wants to sign on to some common "truth" that doesn't exist.
Here is your "Traditional" Pope in action, neo-cons.  I wonder how they'll defend this one...

He speaks out of both sides of his mouth - in a certain way, he is even worse than his predecessor because this kind of crap mixed in with seemingly orthodox sentiments just further advances the confusion - the "diabolical disorientation" that has virtually taken over the official structure of the Church.  The hierarchy of our religion is certainly in shambles.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6