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I just finished reading Malachi Martin's book "Hostage to the Devil."  One of his cases involves a possessed priest.  This priest would regularly change the words of the sacraments in Latin.  He would baptize in the name of the sky, earth, and water.  For the consecration, he would say, "this is my tombstone" or "this is my sexuality."  He would absolve in the name of the lord of light, or the name of the sky, earth, and water.  He said that since it was in Latin, he was never really caught, though one of his assistance heard him say at Mass, "The Lord of light be with you."

My question is this:  how does God view those who received such sacraments?  Obviously a child baptized in the name of sky, earth, and water has received an invalid sacrament.  Yet the priest was possessed.  Does God supply, as it were, the grace of the sacrament?  Or, take confession for example.  Since the intention of the faithful was to confess and receive absolution, is absolution granted despite the priest mucking it up?

My gut feeling says that charity trumps all and God is not going to damn a faithful Catholic who, through no fault of their own, received an invalid sacrament from a possessed priest.

The book didn't say, but I wondered if the parish, after the exorcism, contacted all the parishioners who received sacraments from this priest and told them about it.  I would want to be conditionally "re-"baptized if I found out my priest had been possessed.

Thoughts?

Pax,
Jesse
While we know what is needed for a sacrament to be valid, form, matter and intent we do not know how our lord may function outside of the revealed channels of grace.

Our lord said 'let the children come to me'. We must trust in his infinate mercy and love. While it is ALWAYS imperative to besure that any sacraments recieved are valid let us never forget that god forgives, and that there is such a thing as baptism of desire and of blood.

In christ
Deacon S
Isn't this a fictional book?  I know that some people like reading Malachi Martin, but if people are going to doubt the validity of the Sacraments they've received, then that's a problem.
(09-24-2011, 03:15 PM)MeaMaximaCulpa Wrote: [ -> ]Isn't this a fictional book?  I know that some people like reading Malachi Martin, but if people are going to doubt the validity of the Sacraments they've received, then that's a problem.

He claims it isn't fictional, that he's interviewed everyone involved, listened to the tapings of the exorcisms, etc.  But even if he made it up, or whatever, my question could still remain as a hypothetical.  And to be clear, I'm not doubting the validity of my sacraments :)

Pax,
Jesse
I was always told that a true Catholic couldn't be possessed.  Is this true or have I been believing a lie?
No way would those sacraments be valid.

How ever much "wiggle room" people choose to accept, no way on heaven or earth would those Sacraments be valid.

True Catholics can get possessed. All they need do is start playing with fire i.e. drugs, booze, sex, ouija board, fortune telling, tarot cards etc.
(09-24-2011, 05:19 PM)Stubborn Wrote: [ -> ]No way would those sacraments be valid.

How ever much "wiggle room" people choose to accept, no way on heaven or earth would those Sacraments be valid.

True Catholics can get possessed. All they need do is start playing with fire i.e. drugs, booze, sex, ouija board, fortune telling, tarot cards etc.
I have to agree with stubborn. Those sacraments must be invalid, but God can do whatever He wants so He could have accepted those infants as Christians...I mean He has done stranger things, remember when Lazarus died then Jesus brought him back to life? Also, I read that book too and it is very scary. It is a true story and Malichi Martin was once a priest and a VERY orthodox Catholic. I don't think he'd make the book up.
I highly doubt the sacraments would be valid, but I would think that God would likely step in and give those who were properly disposed to receive these "sacraments" the grace from them.  I don't think they'd be hung out to dry, so to speak.

(09-25-2011, 11:55 AM)Mithrandylan Wrote: [ -> ]I highly doubt the sacraments would be valid, but I would think that God would likely step in and give those who were properly disposed to receive these "sacraments" the grace from them.  I don't think they'd be hung out to dry, so to speak.

No, silly, why would God step in and do that for them?  He has no such mercy for babies who die unbaptized with only Original Sin on their souls.  That's why we have Limbo.  Why would God show such mercy to the undeserving wretch who mistakenly dies in both Original and Actual Sin, if he is unwilling to show such mercy on infants?  Limbo is the outermost ring of hell.  Perhaps these souls go to the second most outer ring of hell?
(09-26-2011, 01:02 AM)Melkite Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-25-2011, 11:55 AM)Mithrandylan Wrote: [ -> ]I highly doubt the sacraments would be valid, but I would think that God would likely step in and give those who were properly disposed to receive these "sacraments" the grace from them.  I don't think they'd be hung out to dry, so to speak.

No, silly, why would God step in and do that for them?  He has no such mercy for babies who die unbaptized with only Original Sin on their souls.  That's why we have Limbo.  Why would God show such mercy to the undeserving wretch who mistakenly dies in both Original and Actual Sin, if he is unwilling to show such mercy on infants?  Limbo is the outermost ring of hell.  Perhaps these souls go to the second most outer ring of hell?

Not to derail this too much but..
Baptism is required for salvation... I don't know why you seem to have such an issue with it.

The Gospel according to St. John 3:5 Wrote:Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

St. John Chrysostom (Homily XXV on the Gospel of John 3:5) Wrote:If any ask, How, stop his mouth with the declaration of God, which is the strongest and a plain proof. If any enquire, Why is water included? let us also in return ask, Wherefore was earth employed at the beginning in the creation of man? for that it was possible for God to make man without earth, is quite plain to every one. Be not then over-curious.

That the need of water is absolute and indispensable, you may learn in this way. On one occasion, when the Spirit had flown down before the water was applied, the Apostle did not stay at this point, but, as though the water were necessary and not superfluous, observe what he says; Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? Acts 10:47

St. Irenæus (Against Heresies 2.22) Wrote:Christ came to save all who are reborn through Him to God — infants, children, and youths(infantes et parvulos et pueros).

St. Augustine (On the Soul, Book III) Wrote:If you wish to be a Catholic, do not believe, nor say, nor teach, that infants who die before baptism can obtain the remission of original sin.

St. Augustine (Epistle 28) Wrote:Whoever says that even infants are vivified in Christ when they depart this life without the participation of His Sacrament (Baptism), both opposes the Apostolic preaching and condemns the whole Church which hastens to baptize infants, because it unhesitatingly believes that otherwise they can not possibly be vivified in Christ.

St. Ambrose (II De Abraham., c. xi) Wrote:No one is excepted, not the infant, not the one hindered by any necessity.
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