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Full Version: I used to be more bitter about the state of Catholicism
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For quite a while it felt like the whole world was against Catholicism, especially Catholics trying to hold true to the Faith.

Homosexuals, secularists, liberals, and their allies continually assault the Church, and there are those Catholics who "go through the motions" but believe whatever they want.  I worried about how well my potential children (if I marry and have children, of course) would carry the burden after me.

Then I realized something interesting (while praying the Rosary, no less): the Church's enemies in general regard pregnancy and child-rearing rather poorly, and the more children a family has, the less they approve.  This means that they will use artificial contraception and abortion--lamentable, certainly--but their ideals would not be passed on very well because they would have fewer children per family.

So Catholicism can hold out against our current enemies over time if faithful Catholics have good, strong marriages and comfortable numbers of children per family; maintain concern for the widows and orphans; and foster in their children a strong spiritual life; good moral values; and a good academic education. 

In a few generations, the culture of death will have significantly died out and faithful Catholics will live on.  The children of broken homes can yet be reclaimed, but I could only imagine that Catholics will eventually outnumber their enemies and de-legitimize THEM for a change--but instead of the sophistry; insults; lies; and flashiness, with humility, peace, charity, and grace.
Firstly it will take a long long time and secondly when judged by history some black swan event always comes along and messes things up. Thirdly this is not what Fatima prophecies suggest happens. They are backed up by the miracle of the sun. Fourthly the Muslims will outbreed us and put us to the sword if we don't convert to Islam.
(09-25-2011, 03:14 AM)DeoDuce Wrote: [ -> ]For quite a while it felt like the whole world was against Catholicism, especially Catholics trying to hold true to the Faith.

Homosexuals, secularists, liberals, and their allies continually assault the Church, and there are those Catholics who "go through the motions" but believe whatever they want.  I worried about how well my potential children (if I marry and have children, of course) would carry the burden after me.

Then I realized something interesting (while praying the Rosary, no less): the Church's enemies in general regard pregnancy and child-rearing rather poorly, and the more children a family has, the less they approve.  This means that they will use artificial contraception and abortion--lamentable, certainly--but their ideals would not be passed on very well because they would have fewer children per family.

So Catholicism can hold out against our current enemies over time if faithful Catholics have good, strong marriages and comfortable numbers of children per family; maintain concern for the widows and orphans; and foster in their children a strong spiritual life; good moral values; and a good academic education. 

In a few generations, the culture of death will have significantly died out and faithful Catholics will live on.  The children of broken homes can yet be reclaimed, but I could only imagine that Catholics will eventually outnumber their enemies and de-legitimize THEM for a change--but instead of the sophistry; insults; lies; and flashiness, with humility, peace, charity, and grace.

Some interesting points, but I really don't think we should depend on populating the world with more children to get more Catholics in the World. St. Paul is famous for going around and actually converting people in different cities is he not? We as Catholics must have an influence in our societies politics and culture in order to save as many souls as possible. This is the reason why we must vote against things like proposition 8 and vote for propositions that limit abortions by as much as possible and candidates that be at least somewhat moral.

Yes, your idea would probably work considering many liberals refuse to have many children because they think it will blow up the earth for some reason. However, I worry that depending on Abortions, which means millions of dead people, is just a horrible way to win the ongoing battle against evil on this planet. Waiting for all those people to die is waiting for millions of souls to be lost. This is why I believe we should be out trying to convert people get them to realize the error of their ways and more importantly, making an impact on our culture in every way possible. That's how more souls will be saved without the need for giving up on those that seem lost now. Smile
(09-25-2011, 03:33 AM)ggreg Wrote: [ -> ]Firstly it will take a long long time and secondly when judged by history some black swan event always comes along and messes things up. Thirdly this is not what Fatima prophecies suggest happens. They are backed up by the miracle of the sun. Fourthly the Muslims will outbreed us and put us to the sword if we don't convert to Islam.

Well if we make enough little soldiers, it'll be quite a show.  Men become really scary warriors when they're defending their wives and kids.

atlantis587 Wrote:Some interesting points, but I really don't think we should depend on populating the world with more children to get more Catholics in the World. St. Paul is famous for going around and actually converting people in different cities is he not? We as Catholics must have an influence in our societies politics and culture in order to save as many souls as possible. This is the reason why we must vote against things like proposition 8 and vote for propositions that limit abortions by as much as possible and candidates that be at least somewhat moral.

Yes, your idea would probably work considering many liberals refuse to have many children because they think it will blow up the earth for some reason. However, I worry that depending on Abortions, which means millions of dead people, is just a horrible way to win the ongoing battle against evil on this planet. Waiting for all those people to die is waiting for millions of souls to be lost. This is why I believe we should be out trying to convert people get them to realize the error of their ways and more importantly, making an impact on our culture in every way possible. That's how more souls will be saved without the need for giving up on those that seem lost now.

Well traditional Catholics have a very small number, so it will be necessary to repopulate the Church in order to fill the pews and make more priests, religious, and children anyway.  I figure traditionalists are more likely to keep the observances of their ancestors and obey God and the Faith than a lot of mainline Catholics (if the Confession line at my parish is any indication).

Yes, it's tragic how many children are aborted, and I think if they were all allowed to live, it would force our society to come to terms with a few important truths.  However, I think cosmetic abortions work against the abortion industry and pro-abortionists in the long run anyway, especially if pro-lifers have big families raised from the cradle to oppose abortion and evil works in general.  The growing numbers of faithful Catholics will in time outnumber the wicked ones and be better equipped to turn people to God.
(09-25-2011, 03:34 AM)atlantis587 Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-25-2011, 03:14 AM)DeoDuce Wrote: [ -> ]For quite a while it felt like the whole world was against Catholicism, especially Catholics trying to hold true to the Faith.

Homosexuals, secularists, liberals, and their allies continually assault the Church, and there are those Catholics who "go through the motions" but believe whatever they want.  I worried about how well my potential children (if I marry and have children, of course) would carry the burden after me.

Then I realized something interesting (while praying the Rosary, no less): the Church's enemies in general regard pregnancy and child-rearing rather poorly, and the more children a family has, the less they approve.  This means that they will use artificial contraception and abortion--lamentable, certainly--but their ideals would not be passed on very well because they would have fewer children per family.

So Catholicism can hold out against our current enemies over time if faithful Catholics have good, strong marriages and comfortable numbers of children per family; maintain concern for the widows and orphans; and foster in their children a strong spiritual life; good moral values; and a good academic education. 

In a few generations, the culture of death will have significantly died out and faithful Catholics will live on.  The children of broken homes can yet be reclaimed, but I could only imagine that Catholics will eventually outnumber their enemies and de-legitimize THEM for a change--but instead of the sophistry; insults; lies; and flashiness, with humility, peace, charity, and grace.

Some interesting points, but I really don't think we should depend on populating the world with more children to get more Catholics in the World. St. Paul is famous for going around and actually converting people in different cities is he not? We as Catholics must have an influence in our societies politics and culture in order to save as many souls as possible. This is the reason why we must vote against things like proposition 8 and vote for propositions that limit abortions by as much as possible and candidates that be at least somewhat moral.

Yes, your idea would probably work considering many liberals refuse to have many children because they think it will blow up the earth for some reason. However, I worry that depending on Abortions, which means millions of dead people, is just a horrible way to win the ongoing battle against evil on this planet. Waiting for all those people to die is waiting for millions of souls to be lost. This is why I believe we should be out trying to convert people get them to realize the error of their ways and more importantly, making an impact on our culture in every way possible. That's how more souls will be saved without the need for giving up on those that seem lost now. Smile

Why is it more horrible that flooding the entire planet with water and killing off every living thing other than Noah his family and his huge zoo?
Well I hate to tell you but from what I've seen many Catholic families don't always get THAT massive. Even devout ones that do not use birth control large families are rare. Normally it is between one and five children, among Pagans the numbers I have seen are between one and four. An you gotta factor in the Church's emphasis on Celibacy. Jospheite Marriages, Nuns, Monks, Priests, Hermits, Virgins, ect. ect. ect. Not being allowed to marry if one is unable to procreate (Forgot the fancy term and here I am looking to adoption.)

Abstinance is 99.99999999999999% Effective (Forgive the Miraculous Conception joke). Condoms, the pill, ect. not so much. An abortion is losing favor in Liberal and especially in Pagan circles. I can say this as a Socialist Democrat and a Pagan.

So yeah lot of factors to add in.
Wen, is on to something.I've seen several shallow reports in the MSM, celebrating (sarcasm) the fact that infertility has beome a real problem. It would appear that God Almighty has decided not to give us as many children as in times before.

tim
I would gladly bring more kids into the world if I had control over it!  But alas... nothing.  Infertility does really seem to be affecting many people, especially secondary infertility (infertility that occurs after having children).