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You gotta be kidding, aquinasg. "Sheeple" is an Orwellian term.
I used that word just because someone else used it against me on here. We must respect our leaders. Traditional theological manuals clasify it as a mortal sin to have contempt for one's superiors
(11-14-2011, 08:30 PM)aquinasg Wrote: [ -> ]I used that word just because someone else used it against me on here. We must respect our leaders. Traditional theological manuals clasify it as a mortal sin to have contempt for one's superiors

It seems like you're trolling for SVs.

Go back to CI...oh wait.
If you don't want to have rational conversations about these matters, that's not my fault. "Catholic Answer Catholics" and "Traditionalists" through dialogue be able to rid themselves of much misconceptions and I am happy to lend my help. Why in the world would you not welcome a reasonable explanation of your Holy Papa's actions. You prefer to believe he sinned? Where does this mentality come from? Not from God.
(11-14-2011, 10:28 PM)aquinasg Wrote: [ -> ]If you don't want to have rational conversations about these matters, that's not my fault. "Catholic Answer Catholics" and "Traditionalists" through dialogue be able to rid themselves of much misconceptions and I am happy to lend my help. Why in the world would you not welcome a reasonable explanation of your Holy Papa's actions. You prefer to believe he sinned? Where does this mentality come from? Not from God.

Please be careful here. You are hypocritically doing exactly what you are accusing everyone else of doing: rashly judging others. You assume--or rather judge--right off the bat that everyone here gets a kick out of criticising (or as you say "judging") the pope or indulging in contempt for superiors. Those who are willing to acknowledge that what JPII did was contrary to the teachings of Christ (and then express their rightful outrage) are immediately judged by you to have a judgemental mentality, as if we get some sort of high out of acknowledging the elephant in the room.

Quite the contrary. I certainly wish he had never done it. I certainly don't like to have to acknowledge that the man who is supposed to be leading the Catholic people to Heaven was instead "touching the unclean thing" in a reverential way. It makes a mockery of the Faith and is embarrassing for a Catholic. The pope is not above the law; he is subject to the law of Christ, to the Scriptures, and to Tradition. When he goes against these foundations of the Faith, it can rightfully be said that he is attacking them. Christians should be outraged by this. They shouldn't be judged by persons as yourself to be just scandalmongers who are just trying to make an innocent action look bad. There are plenty of people who do that already. You should go take your zeal to them where you will actually be doing some good and defending the teachings of the Gospel. Defending JPII in this case certainly doesn't defend the Gospel.

As a side note: Tradition does not call the pope "Holy Father" as though it were some kind of infallible declaration of his personal holiness. The pope is called "Holy Father" out of respect for the papacy itself that he is presumed to hold. It is improper to re-assign this traditional title only to the person of the pope as though it refers only to his private spiritual life. We have had many bad--terrible, in fact--popes who were anything but personally holy. They were still called "Holy Father" not because of their personal sanctity, but rather in spite of it. They were still called Holy Father simply out of the respect due to the office of the papacy.

Protestants used to accuse Catholics of something called "Papalotry" (also known as "pope worship") whereby the pope is treated not just the representative of Christ on Earth, but equal to Christ Himself--as though everything he does is infallible and beyond criticism. People who struggle to distinguish the man from the office end up deifying the pope. This is a very serious fault and one that compromises the teachings of Christ.

The Protestants were wrong to accuse Catholics of that then, but they would be spot-on were they to accuse many Catholics of it today.

Promotion of it should be banned from this forum with as much vigour as is sedevacantism.

EDITED: grammar
I can't even begin to tell you how many times I've seen Orthodox, Protestants, Jews, and whoever else using the koran kissing incident or any of the other scandalous and un-Catholic things John Paul II said or did as a way to say pretty much that Roman Catholicism is a false religion. "Your Pope prays with Jews...or Muslims...or witchdoctors they say." Or "your Pope kissed the Koran so Muslims don't have to convert and worship the same God." John Paul II's actions have caused massive scandal and have probably led many people to reject the Faith altogether. His kissing of a book that mocks the Trinity as a pagan fable and denies the Divinity of Christ is inexcusable any way you cut it as far as I'm concerned and quite frankly that vile and despicable act has forever tarnished my image of John Paul II. I pray for his soul but I also pray that he will never ever be formally canonized as a saint much less have "the Great" after his name.
(11-14-2011, 11:57 PM)formerbuddhist Wrote: [ -> ]I can't even begin to tell you how many times I've seen Orthodox, Protestants, Jews, and whoever else using the koran kissing incident or any of the other scandalous and un-Catholic things John Paul II said or did as a way to say pretty much that Roman Catholicism is a false religion. "Your Pope prays with Jews...or Muslims...or witchdoctors they say." Or "your Pope kissed the Koran so Muslims don't have to convert and worship the same God." John Paul II's actions have caused massive scandal and have probably led many people to reject the Faith altogether. His kissing of a book that mocks the Trinity as a pagan fable and denies the Divinity of Christ is inexcusable any way you cut it as far as I'm concerned and quite frankly that vile and despicable act has forever tarnished my image of John Paul II. I pray for his soul but I also pray that he will never ever be formally canonized as a saint much less have "the Great" after his name.

Papa?  :(
(11-14-2011, 11:42 PM)INPEFESS Wrote: [ -> ]Protestants used to accuse Catholics of something called "Papalotry" (also known as "pope worship") whereby the pope is treated not just the representative of Christ on Earth, but equal to Christ Himself--as though everything he does is infallible and beyond criticism. People who struggle to distinguish the man from the office end up deifying the pope. This is a very serious fault and one that compromises the teachings of Christ.

The Protestants were wrong to accuse Catholics of that then, but they would be spot-on were they to accuse many Catholics of it today.

Promotion of it should be banned from this forum with as much vigour as is sedevacantism.

THIS!
It may have been a bad decision on the part of the Pope, but it was not blasphemy as I have amply demonstrated. Also, I have not pointed my finger at a single person. I have pointed out an anti-Catholic spirit which I use to have, and which some on this board seem to lean towards. I was critizing a person, but putting out a legit warning
(11-15-2011, 12:04 AM)aquinasg Wrote: [ -> ]It may have been a bad decision on the part of the Pope, but it was not blasphemy as I have amply demonstrated. Also, I have not pointed my finger at a single person. I have pointed out an anti-Catholic spirit which I use to have, and which some on this board seem to lean towards. I was critizing a person, but putting out a legit warning

May? It is or it isn't.

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