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Gasp! State ownership of banks! This sounds an awful lot like that socialist Modernist, Pius XI:

"114. For if the class struggle abstains from enmities and mutual hatred, it gradually changes into an honest discussion of differences founded on a desire for justice, and if this is not that blessed social peace which we all seek, it can and ought to be the point of departure from which to move forward to the mutual cooperation of the Industries and Professions. So also the war declared on private ownership, more and more abated, is being so restricted that now, finally, not the possession itself of the means of production is attacked but rather a kind of sovereignty over society which ownership has, contrary to all right, seized and usurped. For such sovereignty belongs in reality not to owners but to the public authority. If the foregoing happens, it can come even to the point that imperceptibly these ideas of the more moderate socialism will no longer differ from the desires and demands of those who are striving to remold human society on the basis of Christian principles. For certain kinds of property, it is rightly contended, ought to be reserved to the State since they carry with them a dominating power so great that cannot without danger to the general welfare be entrusted to private individuals.

115. Such just demands and desire have nothing in them now which is inconsistent with Christian truth, and much less are they special to Socialism. Those who work solely toward such ends have, therefore, no reason to become socialists.” -Quadragesimo Anno (emphasis added)
That's pretty vague. Socialists can kinda a reason to nationalize anything.
I don't find the encyclical vague, but when I first read it I immediately understood why American Catholics were almost all Democrats until Roe V. Wade. Socialists indeed can find a reason to nationalize anything, and Liberals (i.e. free-marketers) can find a reason to privatize anything. Thus:

"46. Accordingly, twin rocks of shipwreck must be carefully avoided. For, as one is wrecked upon, or comes close to, what is known as "individualism" by denying or minimizing the social and public character of the right of property, so by rejecting or minimizing the private and individual character of this same right, one inevitably runs into "collectivism" or at least closely approaches its tenets."

It is impermissible to baptize Marx; it is equally wrong to baptize von Mises.
(11-19-2011, 11:50 PM)Antonius Block Wrote: [ -> ]I don't find the encyclical vague, but when I first read it I immediately understood why American Catholics were almost all Democrats until Roe V. Wade. Socialists indeed can find a reason to nationalize anything, and Liberals (i.e. free-marketers) can find a reason to privatize anything. Thus:

"46. Accordingly, twin rocks of shipwreck must be carefully avoided. For, as one is wrecked upon, or comes close to, what is known as "individualism" by denying or minimizing the social and public character of the right of property, so by rejecting or minimizing the private and individual character of this same right, one inevitably runs into "collectivism" or at least closely approaches its tenets."

Just because most Catholics do something doesn't make it OK. Most "Catholics" use contraception. That fact doesn't make it OK.


(11-19-2011, 11:50 PM)Antonius Block Wrote: [ -> ]It is impermissible to baptize Marx; it is equally wrong to baptize von Mises.

Listen pal, I don't like you implying that I'm a follower of the capitalist Jew, von Mises.
(11-19-2011, 11:56 PM)Servire Deo Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-19-2011, 11:50 PM)Antonius Block Wrote: [ -> ]It is impermissible to baptize Marx; it is equally wrong to baptize von Mises.

Listen pal, I don't like you implying that I'm a follower of the capitalist Jew, von Mises.

I'm sorry that I offended you, sir. I did not mean to imply that you personally adhered to the Austrian school or any other brand of economic Liberalism. I intended only to defend +Williamson from charges that his advocacy of bank nationalization was Socialist. Rather, many so-called "Social Democratic" policies in fact align closely with preconciliar Catholic social doctrine.

You wrote earlier,
Quote:Bishop Williamson's recommendations will work but I'm not sure if the ideas are too statist.

I think I agree with you. This is a matter of prudential judgment that I admit I'm unqualified to make. It may be true that his ideas are too statist, but that doesn't mean that there is no role for the State in establishing and regulating a just economy. The proper role many Popes have assigned to the State has distressed no small number of Liberals as well as Socialists.
(11-20-2011, 12:15 AM)Antonius Block Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-19-2011, 11:56 PM)Servire Deo Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-19-2011, 11:50 PM)Antonius Block Wrote: [ -> ]It is impermissible to baptize Marx; it is equally wrong to baptize von Mises.

Listen pal, I don't like you implying that I'm a follower of the capitalist Jew, von Mises.

I'm sorry that I offended you, sir. I did not mean to imply that you personally adhered to the Austrian school or any other brand of economic Liberalism. I intended only to defend +Williamson from charges that his advocacy of bank nationalization was Socialist. Rather, many so-called "Social Democratic" policies in fact align closely with preconciliar Catholic social doctrine.

You wrote earlier,
Quote:Bishop Williamson's recommendations will work but I'm not sure if the ideas are too statist.

I think I agree with you. This is a matter of prudential judgment that I admit I'm unqualified to make. It may be true that his ideas are too statist, but that doesn't mean that there is no role for the State in establishing and regulating a just economy. The proper role many Popes have assigned to the State has distressed no small number of Liberals as well as Socialists.

Thanks, you're a pal.

I agree with you.
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