FishEaters Traditional Catholic Forums

Full Version: Why do some believe the Church is not in a crisis?
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6
From what I understand people will admit the Church is in a crisis but they say that our sick world is the cause not Vatican II. I guess the world was never as anti-Christian as it is now. I mean come on, people act as if teenagers were such saints on sexual morality before the 1960's and the sexual revolution. Eye-roll
(12-16-2011, 03:58 AM)charlesh Wrote: [ -> ]though there there were other dogs in the past, they were in the streets and in the forests; today the dog is in the sanctuary

This is exactly how I see it.  I envy the Catholics of the past sometimes, when I think that because of the current crisis I literally pass dozens of Catholic churches in order to go one with the TLM ... it's ridiculous.  When I am in Philly and driving to Mater Ecclesiae in Berlin I think about this every time I pass a Catholic church on the street, and I wonder how many are nearby on other side roads ... why can't I just go to a TLM there?  How can this not be a crisis?

At least in the past despite lots of problems of all sorts, you could just put all the problems aside and go pray at Mass at the nearest Church, at least in many places in Christendom (the "crisis" term wouldn't really apply to mission lands or persecution).  Here in the US, the TLM is legal, no one is going to kill you for going (yet) but the Church herself takes it away from us.  Huh?
(12-15-2011, 05:38 PM)Adam Wayne Wrote: [ -> ]Either way, I am content in my Faith and what I am doing. I am married, I have children who I am raising in the Faith, I am well fed at my parish, so life is good.

What crisis?

It's all in you, my brothers and sisters. If life gives you lemons, make lemonade.

I'm happy that you and your family are able to live an authentic Catholic life in your parish.  Not everyone can say that, but I guess it's because people like us just haven't learned to make the best of it yet.  That's what I got out of your post, anyway.  In my case, sometimes I feel like the worst thing I ever did was pick up that '62 Missal and start looking into why it was so different from what we have today.  Before that, I was content, but what I have learned over the past few years (and contine to learn) has upset me and I haven't been the same since.  I can only speak for myself, but I feel that something precious has been taken from us.  Not only the Mass and the Sacraments according to the Traditional Rites, but in some instances it seems the Truth itself, along with an entire way of life.  I pray every day before I send my kids off to Catholic school that they may be protected from errors that might mislead them and harm their souls, but that's just because I haven't learned to make the best of it yet?  Maybe I've misunderstood what you wrote, and if I have I apologize.  I do not want a Stepford Wives parish full of robots.  I want a Catholic parish full of people who fight for the Truth, not against it.
(12-16-2011, 03:58 AM)charlesh Wrote: [ -> ]
Chesterton Wrote:"At least five times, therefore, with the Arian and the Albigensian, with the Humanist sceptic, after Voltaire and after Darwin, the Faith has to all appearance gone to the dogs. In each of these five cases it was the dog that died.

And still, Chesterton is affirming that there was, in fact, a dog.

Yes, the dog will die. But I say that the dog exists. I'll even say that those who deny the existence of the dog are wrong. Even more, though there there were other dogs in the past, they were in the streets and in the forests; today the dog is in the sanctuary. It's turned it into a doghouse, mastered the pastors, and trained the people to bark. It eats the sheep and shags the lambs. This dog is having its day.

I've been reading this thread all along, but haven't posted. Your message "hit the nail precisely on it's head". Keep up the good fight.
Contentment is a manifestation of gratitude. We have plenty to be grateful for. I am strapped for time now, but will come back later.

NY Catholic, briefly, were the dogs not in the Sanctuary during the Arian Heresy?

St. Eusibius picked up his Cross and helped to defeat it. He made a convert of St. Denis, who also ended up a martyr.
(12-16-2011, 09:29 AM)Adam Wayne Wrote: [ -> ]
(12-16-2011, 12:19 AM)Jackson K. Eskew Wrote: [ -> ]Adam, you preach bovine contentment.

And he blinked.

Not blinking, but scratching my head. Huh?

Can you amplify the meaning of this phrase? Did a quick search, but no help there.

Contentment is a good thing, however.

Contentment is one thing. Bovine contentment is another. Nietzsche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra:

"Alas! There comes the time when man will no longer give birth to any star. Alas! There comes the time of the most despicable man, who can no longer despise himself.

    Lo! I show you the Last Man.

    "What is love? What is creation? What is longing? What is a star?" -- so asks the Last Man, and blinks.

    The earth has become small, and on it hops the Last Man, who makes everything small. His species is ineradicable as the flea; the Last Man lives longest.

    "We have discovered happiness" -- say the Last Men, and they blink.

    They have left the regions where it is hard to live; for they need warmth. One still loves one's neighbor and rubs against him; for one needs warmth.

    Turning ill and being distrustful, they consider sinful: they walk warily. He is a fool who still stumbles over stones or men!

    A little poison now and then: that makes for pleasant dreams. And much poison at the end for a pleasant death.

    One still works, for work is a pastime. But one is careful lest the pastime should hurt one.

    One no longer becomes poor or rich; both are too burdensome. Who still wants to rule? Who still wants to obey? Both are too burdensome.

    No shepherd, and one herd! Everyone wants the same; everyone is the same: he who feels differently goes voluntarily into the madhouse.

    "Formerly all the world was insane," -- say the subtlest of them, and they blink.

    They are clever and know all that has happened: so there is no end to their derision. People still quarrel, but are soon reconciled -- otherwise it upsets their stomachs.

    They have their little pleasures for the day, and their little pleasures for the night, but they have a regard for health.

    "We have discovered happiness," -- say the Last Men, and they blink.

And here ended the first discourse of Zarathustra, which is also called "The Prologue," for at this point the shouting and mirth of the multitude interrupted him. "Give us this Last Man, O Zarathustra," -- they called out -- "make us into these Last Men!
It's not that some deny the crisis, it's just that after crying and complaining they get on with living and doing the best they can -- while a very small number continue obsessing over whether our crisis is worse than the Arian one.
It'd be interesting to discover how many here who downplay the crisis regularly participate in perpetrations of the Novus Ordo.
(12-16-2011, 08:07 PM)Jackson K. Eskew Wrote: [ -> ]It'd be interesting to discover how many here who downplay the crisis regularly participate in perpetrations of the Novus Ordo.
You hit the nail on the head.
(12-16-2011, 11:31 AM)Usquequo Domine Wrote: [ -> ]In my case, sometimes I feel like the worst thing I ever did was pick up that '62 Missal and start looking into why it was so different from what we have today.  Before that, I was content, but what I have learned over the past few years (and contine to learn) has upset me and I haven't been the same since.  I can only speak for myself, but I feel that something precious has been taken from us.  Not only the Mass and the Sacraments according to the Traditional Rites, but in some instances it seems the Truth itself, along with an entire way of life.  I pray every day before I send my kids off to Catholic school that they may be protected from errors that might mislead them and harm their souls, but that's just because I haven't learned to make the best of it yet?  Maybe I've misunderstood what you wrote, and if I have I apologize.  I do not want a Stepford Wives parish full of robots.  I want a Catholic parish full of people who fight for the Truth, not against it.

You musnt' say the worse thing you ever did was pick up a '62 Missal. That is bodering on despair which is a sin against hope. If you are stuck in a nutty Novus Ordo parish, find a more conservative one. And even if that does not suffice. See the Old Mass in the New One. It is there. You will have a greater understanding of the Faith. You will impart that to your children. You will sanctify your soul that way. You have a better understanding of the Truth, since you picked up that '62 Missal. Thank God for that and for the internet which has led many of us to things that were kept secret. Of course there are problems, I am not blind. But, before I found my current parish, I was still attending a less than desirable situation and the '62 Missal gave me hope and guidance. It is certainly not meant to cause you to moan and groan. As far as Catholic Schools for the kids, that's a personal decision. I live in an area where the public schools are much better than the Catholic one which does not teach the Faith. My wife convinced me to make the change. I was still bullheaded about it and fearful. They now all attend the public schools.

I am praying for you and people like you since reading this post yesterday.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6