FishEaters Traditional Catholic Forums

Full Version: Why do some believe the Church is not in a crisis?
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6
From the start let me say this: I don't want this thread to turn into a 'preaching to the converted' rant about the Church actually being in crisis. [also note, of course, I am speaking of the human element, the Divine part of the Church will always be perfect].

However, I notice many people seem to take the opinion that the Church is flourishing like never before. Many people are absolutely dead certain and joyful about the state of the Church right now. I find this fascinating - because I seem to hold the opposite view and I believe that I am correct.

What am I missing? What are they seeing? In what ways can this be said to be true [Church is flourishing]?

I guess I am at a loss. Am I just pessimistic?
We're not in a crisis.  The seeds of the Gospel are nourished by the blood of martyrs.  The martyrs are the bedrock of Holy Mother Church.  We're going into a great persecution in these times.  There will be many faithful dead.

We will be flourishing Wink.
Some have listened to the new springtime stuff Jp2 used to say and believe it.

Some have the worst catechesis possible and wouldn't know a liturgical abuse if a clown priest hit them in the face with a communion pie.

Some are just in absolute denial. They think that a problem in human element of The Church would mean a problem with the divine element of The Church.
(12-15-2011, 02:52 PM)GeorgeT Wrote: [ -> ]Some have listened to the new springtime stuff Jp2 used to say and believe it.

Some have the worst catechesis possible and wouldn't know a liturgical abuse if a clown priest hit them in the face with a communion pie.

Some are just in absolute denial. They think that a problem in human element of The Church would mean a problem with the divine element of The Church.

One large group of people simply doesn't care enough.  They are the crisis in a sense, they are not interested in the Faith, so they see know crisis.  Only important things can be in crisis.

Another group of people want to destroy the faith.  They want to recreate the Church in a modern image, and so from their point of view, there's no crisis: everything is going as planned.  When they think about SP or hear the Pope said a Mass ad orientem, they might have a minor fit, but they go back to their happy-clappy NO and are doing fine.

The third group is more complex.  They claim to love tradition and a hermeneutic of continuity, but they are in clear denial of reality, probably in an attempt to avoid facing the horrific fact that most of the priests in their diocese and probably their bishop too are poorly formed and have wreaked havoc in the diocese in terms of Catholic worship.

A member of the third group, I suspect, would quickly become a trad upon realizing how bad things really are.  At least that's what happened to me.
(12-15-2011, 02:23 PM)SPB Wrote: [ -> ]From the start let me say this: I don't want this thread to turn into a 'preaching to the converted' rant about the Church actually being in crisis. [also note, of course, I am speaking of the human element, the Divine part of the Church will always be perfect].

However, I notice many people seem to take the opinion that the Church is flourishing like never before. Many people are absolutely dead certain and joyful about the state of the Church right now. I find this fascinating - because I seem to hold the opposite view and I believe that I am correct.

What am I missing? What are they seeing? In what ways can this be said to be true [Church is flourishing]?

I guess I am at a loss. Am I just pessimistic?

This excellent book extensively addresses your questions:

http://www.angeluspress.org/oscatalog/it...the-crisis
I have seen this "joyful spirit" in Mexico.
I have friends in the NO seminary. Just last week they were telling me about how the Church is in a crisis by looking at it through the "traditionalist" pinhole lens. But that through the present day lens, it is flourishing. More "converts" in just this year alone than any year in these last 50 years.
They never say traditional, but traditionalist.

Probably peer pressure or just the fact that the many attend the NO and the few attend the TLM.  If they can only listen to the crisis from a priests perspective...

I find this video very revealing


 
(12-15-2011, 03:02 PM)Tapatio Wrote: [ -> ]I find this video very revealing


 

That video is a keeper. Many thanks.
While things are bad, they could be worse, and their are growing signs of thawing.  Look at the Protestants: most of the American denominations that aren't charismatic fads are facing the event horizon of total extinction, and were much worse off for the 60's than the Catholic Church.  This is a troubled time, but the Faith will endure.
Taking for granted they believe that, only two choices are possible:

1. Willed Ignorance (Denial), or
2. Unwilled Ignorance (lack of knowledge, education, or awareness).

Denial may be a factor in people who are not willing to admit that the Church can reach this level of diminishment, or are not willing look upon Churchmen in an unfavorable manner because that would be a sign of disrespect. They have a stake in some way with the facade. Maybe if they admit that to themselves, they may have to make decisions they are not willing to make, like leaving the Church, or become involved in restoration. They may need to change their behavior.

As for true ignorance, they may not know what constitutes a crisis. They may not be as informed as others are (i.e., not on the Internet, or don't know about certain publications). They may not know how to reconcile the issues in their mind and preserve faith. They may have their heads in the clouds, or be narrow in scope (my church is fine, so everything is fine; or it is only a localized thing). They may not be anything more than a cultural Catholic living blind obedience to whatever goes on in their local church.

Etc.

So the mission to these people, clearly, is to bring the topic to their attention, provide education, and to show them that adopting traditional principles of the Faith will only lead to benefits here and the hereafter.
(12-15-2011, 02:23 PM)SPB Wrote: [ -> ]What am I missing? What are they seeing? In what ways can this be said to be true [Church is flourishing]?

I guess I am at a loss. Am I just pessimistic?

I do not have the attitude you describe, but I do not have the opposite.

I think I see the bigger picture (aware of past crises in the Church), and more importantly am aware of my own state.

For me, there is no crisis.

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6