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I came across a good quote on this topic:
Quote:Our Lord is the Head of the Church. But since He willed that His Church should be visible, after His ascension into heaven, He gave her a visible head, who is His Vicar on earth, Peter and his successors…. To him alone did Our Lord give the power to feed the sheep and the lambs, he alone has full, sovereign, and immediate authority over each and every member of the Church. That is why the Church has always proclaimed herself to be a monarchy, governed by one man.

I think this is a good example of the traditional understanding of the Church and papacy.
I don't disagree with the general statement, but I don't think that means a lot.  If our pope was a scoundrel, it would be fitting for Catholics to point that out.  The Church has a long history-- and a significant portion of it included some scoundrels as vicars.

That said, I don't think my comment will mean a lot, either.  You enjoy grinding this ax and picking fights, no matter how tiresome your rhetoric is.  So carry on, and have a Merry Christmas.
(12-23-2011, 07:35 PM)WhollyRoaminCatholic Wrote: [ -> ]I don't disagree with the general statement, but I don't think that means a lot.  If our pope was a scoundrel, it would be fitting for Catholics to point that out.  The Church has a long history-- and a significant portion of it included some scoundrels as vicars.

That said, I don't think my comment will mean a lot, either.  You enjoy grinding this ax and picking fights, no matter how tiresome your rhetoric is.  So carry on, and have a Merry Christmas.

Christmas wishes attached to attributing bad motives to me do not seem very sincere.  It seems a mockery of Our Lord's birth to use it as an occasion to make negative comments to people.
Have a crummy Christmas, then. Whatever floats your boat. And have a rotten new year. Smile
For the record, I did not post this quote to pick a fight.  I thought it was interesting because of the person who said it.
(12-23-2011, 07:59 PM)JayneK Wrote: [ -> ]For the record, I did not post this quote to pick a fight.  I thought it was interesting because of the person who said it.

Of course you would like a quote from John Paul II!
(12-23-2011, 09:00 PM)Someone1776 Wrote: [ -> ]
(12-23-2011, 07:59 PM)JayneK Wrote: [ -> ]For the record, I did not post this quote to pick a fight.  I thought it was interesting because of the person who said it.

Of course you would like a quote from John Paul II!

That is not who said it.  I left off the attribution because I was wondering if anyone would recognize it. 
(12-24-2011, 01:04 AM)JayneK Wrote: [ -> ]
(12-23-2011, 09:00 PM)Someone1776 Wrote: [ -> ]
(12-23-2011, 07:59 PM)JayneK Wrote: [ -> ]For the record, I did not post this quote to pick a fight.  I thought it was interesting because of the person who said it.

Of course you would like a quote from John Paul II!

That is not who said it.  I left off the attribution because I was wondering if anyone would recognize it. 

You should have followed my lead >sad
(12-23-2011, 09:00 PM)Someone1776 Wrote: [ -> ]
(12-23-2011, 07:59 PM)JayneK Wrote: [ -> ]For the record, I did not post this quote to pick a fight.  I thought it was interesting because of the person who said it.

Of course you would like a quote from John Paul II!

It was actually His Lordship, Bernard Fellay in the current 'Superior General's Letter'. Smile
(12-23-2011, 07:24 PM)JayneK Wrote: [ -> ]I came across a good quote on this topic:
Quote:Our Lord is the Head of the Church. But since He willed that His Church should be visible, after His ascension into heaven, He gave her a visible head, who is His Vicar on earth, Peter and his successors…. To him alone did Our Lord give the power to feed the sheep and the lambs, he alone has full, sovereign, and immediate authority over each and every member of the Church. That is why the Church has always proclaimed herself to be a monarchy, governed by one man.

I think this is a good example of the traditional understanding of the Church and papacy.

Absolutely.

But then again, I don't think anyone here contests this. There is much smoke and diabolic disorientation today. Matters are much more complicated than the doctrine presented in the good bishop's statement. It is the clarity of such a teaching that makes people question the authenticity of these reforms, not accept them, as though the Faith can be legitimately changed in the way it has been. As Abp. Levebvre himself said, it makes much more sense to question whether the pope is actually the pope than to say that the Faith can change. Teachers can go astray, but the Faith can't. And if things were so straightforward there wouldn't be so much obvious confusion. It seems you are trying to make a point with this statement but I'm not sure what it is.
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