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Full Version: Baptism of Desire: Avoiding the Red Herrings on a Nearby Thread
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(01-27-2012, 08:08 PM)Gregory I Wrote: [ -> ]baseless assertions of a belief belonging to a single era do NOT constitue adherence to the ordinary and UNIVERSAL magisterium.

Oh, you mean like the novel speculations of a 20th century priest?  :LOL:
NOVEL?

St. Gregory the THeologian mocked those who believed in Baptism of Desire.

What is novel about subscribing to the unanimous consent of the fathers: Baptism alone can justify.
Parmandur, you have zero sense of ecclesiastical vision. The Church was NOT at its height in 1950! gosh. lol.

I maintain, and I believe that it could probably be demonstrated that in EVERY CENTURY there has been SOMEONE who is a member of the clergy who has taught EENS without any kind of Reserve.

I think of Abp George Hay, Fr. Michael Meuller, in our day Fr. Feeney, in the 17th and 18th centuries the italian Augustinians, etc.

Theologians of a single ERA are NOT the magisterial teaching of the church.
(01-28-2012, 03:19 AM)Gregory I Wrote: [ -> ]Parmandur, you have zero sense of ecclesiastical vision. The Church was NOT at its height in 1950! gosh. lol.

I maintain, and I believe that it could probably be demonstrated that in EVERY CENTURY there has been SOMEONE who is a member of the clergy who has taught EENS without any kind of Reserve.

I think of Abp George Hay, Fr. Michael Meuller, in our day Fr. Feeney, in the 17th and 18th centuries the italian Augustinians, etc.

Theologians of a single ERA are NOT the magisterial teaching of the church.

Sure, as understood by the teaching of the Church, in approved Doctors such as St. Ambrose, St. Augustine, St. Bernard, St. Bonaventure, St Albert, St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Robert Bellarmine, St. Alphonsus Ligouri among others, particularly commenting on the teachings of Dogmatic Councils such as Trent.  Your loyalty to Fr. Feeney is cute, but it is not the judgement of the Church.
So, YOU are going to tell me, that the UNANIMOUS consent of the Fathers is NOT:

"Baptism alone can suffice to salvation."

You would say this is NOT the Unanimous consent of the Fathers then?
(01-28-2012, 10:06 AM)Gregory I Wrote: [ -> ]So, YOU are going to tell me, that the UNANIMOUS consent of the Fathers is NOT:

"Baptism alone can suffice to salvation."

You would say this is NOT the Unanimous consent of the Fathers then?

Of course it is.  Nobody denies that.  But BoD is part of that.  :)
That is a drect contradiction.

EXPLAIN yourself please.
(01-28-2012, 03:49 PM)Gregory I Wrote: [ -> ]That is a drect contradiction.

EXPLAIN yourself please.

You've been pointed to Ott.  Read him on the topic, he is perfectly clear.  If you think there is a contradiction, you are not understanding the terms correctly.
How about some reference to an Immediate and Proximate source of faith, like the Ordinary and UNIVERSAL magisterium, or the SOlemn and Extraordinary magisterium. Where, o WHERE is BOD in there?

Ott does not impress me, he just makes the same mistakes that others have made ad nauseam....
(01-28-2012, 10:40 PM)Gregory I Wrote: [ -> ]How about some reference to an Immediate and Proximate source of faith, like the Ordinary and UNIVERSAL magisterium, or the SOlemn and Extraordinary magisterium. Where, o WHERE is BOD in there?

Ott does not impress me, he just makes the same mistakes that others have made ad nauseam....

Ott references the teaching of the Church adequately.  If you are not satisfied with the teaching of the Church, it ain't my problem.
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