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I'm having a discussion with a friend. He says that Our Lady's claim that Russia would spread her errors and that there would be a greater war contradict the doctrine of Free Will.
Here we go again...

Divine prescience and predestination don't contradict human free will. We've been over this issue dozens of times.
Did the prophets contradict the doctrine of Free Will too?
(01-19-2012, 01:59 AM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: [ -> ]Here we go again...

Divine prescience and predestination don't contradict human free will. We've been over this issue dozens of times.

Could you direct me to some good stuff on the subject. I was not instructed on these matters.
(01-19-2012, 02:36 AM)Crusader_Philly Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-19-2012, 01:59 AM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: [ -> ]Here we go again...

Divine prescience and predestination don't contradict human free will. We've been over this issue dozens of times.

Could you direct me to some good stuff on the subject. I was not instructed on these matters.
It's always a good subject for regular Fisheater's to go over. It's a point that needs to be discussed as much as any. I learn different points every time it's discussed.
(01-19-2012, 02:36 AM)Crusader_Philly Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-19-2012, 01:59 AM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: [ -> ]Here we go again...

Divine prescience and predestination don't contradict human free will. We've been over this issue dozens of times.

Could you direct me to some good stuff on the subject. I was not instructed on these matters.

It's very simple.God is eternal and outside of time.He experiences everything at the same time if you will.
There is no past, present or future.We on the other hand are trapped in time during our earthly sojourn but God,in his wisdom reveals to us from time to time "future" events although for God there is no future.We then,being in time and being unaware of all things past,present and future use our free will to work out our salvation regardless of what God already knows about us.It does not change the fact that we chose,in time, our final destiny by virtue of our actions and lives.
(01-19-2012, 01:59 AM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: [ -> ]Here we go again...

Divine prescience and predestination don't contradict human free will. We've been over this issue dozens of times.

You seem a little Jaded and dismissive of late. Perhaps a rest/break is in order?
(01-19-2012, 11:11 AM)Habitual_Ritual Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-19-2012, 02:36 AM)Crusader_Philly Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-19-2012, 01:59 AM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: [ -> ]Here we go again...

Divine prescience and predestination don't contradict human free will. We've been over this issue dozens of times.

Could you direct me to some good stuff on the subject. I was not instructed on these matters.

It's very simple.God is eternal and outside of time.He experiences everything at the same time if you will.
There is no past, present or future.We on the other hand are trapped in time during our earthly sojourn but God,in his wisdom reveals to us from time to time "future" events although for God there is no future.We then,being in time and being unaware of all things past,present and future use our free will to work out our salvation regardless of what God already knows about us.It does not change the fact that we chose,in time, our final destiny by virtue of our actions and lives.
Applause Applause Applause
I think everyone understands that God knowing the future doesn't violate free will.  He just knows what people are going to do.  It gets a little trickier, though, when you think about what happens if God reveals that future.  Because you might think, "Now that I know that I could just do something different, and if I can't do something different, that means the future is fixed and I don't really have free will."  But what you have to realize is that the future God revealed to you included you knowing what he told you about the future.  God knows who is going to listen to what he's saying, when they are going to be thinking about it, etc.  He knows what you're going to do, even with that knowledge, so he knows when he can reveal the future without paradoxing the universe out of existence, if you know what I mean.

[Image: Doc-Brown.jpg]
And I think you do.

A perfect example of this is when Jesus told Peter he was going to deny him three times.  Peter protested this because of his love for Jesus, but you know he also had to be thinking, "Well, maybe that might have happened, but it's sure not going to now that you've told me about it and I'm going to be watching out for it!"  But it happened anyway.  Not because Peter's fate was fixed by any external factor and he couldn't change it, but because Peter's fear overruled his other considerations at the time, which Jesus knew would happen.  So it all works out - God can indeed reveal the future without free will being suppressed.
(01-19-2012, 11:14 AM)Habitual_Ritual Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-19-2012, 01:59 AM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: [ -> ]Here we go again...

Divine prescience and predestination don't contradict human free will. We've been over this issue dozens of times.

You seem a little Jaded and dismissive of late. Perhaps a rest/break is in order?
I agree.
You were charitable in your tone for a long while but recently there has been snippiness and sarcasm.
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