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Full Version: Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira, Revolution & Counter-Revolution, and the TFPs?
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(01-27-2012, 08:30 PM)verenaerin Wrote: [ -> ]I remember. But I didn't think he meant doing the consecration. In fact, didn't he say that he found the whole thing hard to believe. There was a thread about this I remember commenting on.

I remember reading it in one of Father Gruner's letters that Pope Benedict said that he may eventually have to do the consecration.  But when I posted it in here a while ago I also thought that I found it online.  If I find it I'll post it and definitely book mark it so I don't have to go searching for it again.

One thing for sure though is that Our Lord did not tell Sister Lucy that the consecration would be too late if it was done after 1939 like America Needs Fatima and Robert Ritchie are trying to say.  Not a chance.  After the 1982 and 1984 consecrations of the world by John Paul II Sister Lucy said that neither fulfilled heaven's request because the word Russia was not mentioned in either consecration.  This is the first time that I've ever heard anything about this fabrication of it being too late after 1939.  It doesn't make sense at all. 
(01-27-2012, 10:37 PM)mikemac Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-27-2012, 08:30 PM)verenaerin Wrote: [ -> ]I remember. But I didn't think he meant doing the consecration. In fact, didn't he say that he found the whole thing hard to believe. There was a thread about this I remember commenting on.

I remember reading it in one of Father Gruner's letters that Pope Benedict said that he may eventually have to do the consecration.  But when I posted it in here a while ago I also thought that I found it online.  If I find it I'll post it and definitely book mark it so I don't have to go searching for it again.

One thing for sure though is that Our Lord did not tell Sister Lucy that the consecration would be too late if it was done after 1939 like America Needs Fatima and Robert Ritchie are trying to say.  Not a chance.  After the 1982 and 1984 consecrations of the world by John Paul II Sister Lucy said that neither fulfilled heaven's request because the word Russia was not mentioned in either consecration.  This is the first time that I've ever heard anything about this fabrication of it being too late after 1939.  It doesn't make sense at all. 

Thanks for explaining. I will look somethings up too and let you know if I find anything.

About the "too" late part. I absolutely agree that words from Our Lord or His Mother should not be embellished. But just out of curiosity, what does "too" late mean to you? Or what do you see that they mean by it?
(01-27-2012, 11:14 PM)verenaerin Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-27-2012, 10:37 PM)mikemac Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-27-2012, 08:30 PM)verenaerin Wrote: [ -> ]I remember. But I didn't think he meant doing the consecration. In fact, didn't he say that he found the whole thing hard to believe. There was a thread about this I remember commenting on.

I remember reading it in one of Father Gruner's letters that Pope Benedict said that he may eventually have to do the consecration.  But when I posted it in here a while ago I also thought that I found it online.  If I find it I'll post it and definitely book mark it so I don't have to go searching for it again.

One thing for sure though is that Our Lord did not tell Sister Lucy that the consecration would be too late if it was done after 1939 like America Needs Fatima and Robert Ritchie are trying to say.  Not a chance.  After the 1982 and 1984 consecrations of the world by John Paul II Sister Lucy said that neither fulfilled heaven's request because the word Russia was not mentioned in either consecration.  This is the first time that I've ever heard anything about this fabrication of it being too late after 1939.  It doesn't make sense at all. 

Thanks for explaining. I will look somethings up too and let you know if I find anything.

About the "too" late part. I absolutely agree that words from Our Lord or His Mother should not be embellished. But just out of curiosity, what does "too" late mean to you? Or what do you see that they mean by it?

This is the second part of the Secret given to the three shepherd children of Fatima, on July 13, 1917.
http://www.fatima.org/essentials/message/tspart2.asp
Quote:To save them [poor sinners who are on the road to hell], God wishes to establish in the world devotion to My Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace. The war is going to end; but if people do not cease offending God, a worse war will break out during the reign of Pius XI. When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that He is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions against the Church and against the Holy Father.

        To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to My Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of Reparation on the First Saturdays. If My requests are heeded, Russia will be converted and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions against the Church. The good will be martyred, the Holy Father will have much to suffer, various nations will be annihilated.

On June 13, 1929, while Sister Lucy was at the novitiate of the Dorotheans at Tuy, Spain, Our Lady fulfilled Her promise of July 13, 1917: "I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia ...".  At that time Our Lady said to Sister Lucy "The moment has come when God asks the Holy Father to make, in union with all the bishops of the world, the consecration of Russia to My Immaculate Heart".
http://www.fatima.org/essentials/message/reqconsec.asp

The America Needs Fatima web page that FishFriday previously posted in this thread says this,
http://www.americaneedsfatima.org/Articl...-redo.html
Quote:In a letter to Father Gonçalves, dated May 18, 1936, the seer narrates a locution she had from Our Lord regarding the same:

The Holy Father. Pray very much for the Holy Father. He will do [the consecration to Russia], but it will be too late. Nevertheless, the Immaculate Heart of Mary will save Russia. It has been entrusted to Her.
And this,
Quote:Like the king of France they will repent and do so, but it will be too late.

But if you do a search for those two quotes it looks like America Needs Fatima is the only Fatima apostolate that have added "too" to Our Lord's quotes.  Every other web site about Fatima that quotes this line read like this; "Pray very much for the Holy Father! He will do it, but it will be late."  Every other web site about Fatima that quotes this line reads like this; "Like the King of France they will repent of it, and they will do it, but it will be late."  America Needs Fatima has distorted Our Lord's words by adding "too" to both those quotes.

So verenaerin your questions were, "But just out of curiosity, what does "too" late mean to you? Or what do you see that they mean by it?"

It's clear on the America Needs Fatima site what they think it means.
http://www.americaneedsfatima.org/Articl...-redo.html
Quote:Analyzing the Fatima message, along with the words Our Lord and Our Lady later communicated privately to Sister Lucy, and the events following the apparitions, we are led to conclude that this proper moment was during Pius XI’s pontificate (1922–1939).
...
Undoubtedly then, the chastisement predicted in case Russia was not consecrated to the Immaculate Heart of Mary was fully realized. The consecrations carried out afterwards were certainly pleasing to God but, as the historical events clearly show, they no longer had the power to forestall the chastisement.


Like I said, after the 1982 and 1984 consecrations of the world by John Paul II Sister Lucy said that neither fulfilled heaven's request because the word Russia was not mentioned in either consecration.  If the consecration of Russia no longer had the power to forestall the chastisement then Sister Lucy would not have been concerned that the word Russia was not mentioned in the 1982 and 1984 consecrations.

To me this means that it is still not too late to do the consecration of Russia to Mary's Immaculate Heart.

Russia can still be converted to the Catholic Faith with a proper consecration.

We can still see a period of peace with a proper consecration.

Without a proper consecration Russia will continue to spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions against the Church.

Without a proper consecration the good will still be martyred.

Without a proper consecration the Holy Father will still have much to suffer.

Without a proper consecration various nations will still be annihilated.

I find it deplorable that America Needs Fatima has distorted Our Lord's words.  They are putting many souls at risk.  Now that they know this, these new Fish Eaters members that are spreading this false message from America Needs Fatima and Robert Ritchie should heed these words if they know what's good for them.  God help them.
(01-28-2012, 02:55 AM)mikemac Wrote: [ -> ]To me this means that it is still not too late to do the consecration of Russia to Mary's Immaculate Heart.

Russia can still be converted to the Catholic Faith with a proper consecration.

We can still see a period of peace with a proper consecration.

Without a proper consecration Russia will continue to spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions against the Church.

Without a proper consecration the good will still be martyred.

Without a proper consecration the Holy Father will still have much to suffer.

Without a proper consecration various nations will still be annihilated.

I find it deplorable that America Needs Fatima has distorted Our Lord's words.  They are putting many souls at risk.  Now that they know this, these new Fish Eaters members that are spreading this false message from America Needs Fatima and Robert Ritchie should heed these words if they know what's good for them.  God help them.

Ok, I get it. By saying that it is too late, they mean that any Consecration done now would be meaningless- so why do it. That was the part I was missing, thank you for pointing out the obvious, my brain must be a little slow. :grin: I can see how dangerous this is. It is incredibly diabolical. I am not accusing anyone of TFP or ANF, but if Satan doesn't want the Consecration done, this is an incredibly deceptive way to trick people.
This sounds like a book I would benefit from, and the organization interests me too. What a name ! Tradition, Family, Property. Some of my favourite nouns, next to Throne and Altar.
For sure verenaerin, very diabolical on the part of satan to confuse people like this.  Today I received an email from TFP Student Action that included this link.
https://www.tfpstudentaction.org/what-we-do/street-campaigns/march-for-life-draws-multitude-of-pro-life-youth.html?utm_source=sm&utm_medium=email&utm_content=SAE0111&utm_campaign=MainNewsletter

Quite impressive.  Apparently approximately 350,000 people converged on Washington for the Walk for Life.  About 50,000 Walk for Life in San Francisco, California - 2012.  2012 Louisiana Life March, Baton Rouge, Louisiana (About 4,000 pro-lifers attend).  And they send e-mail protests about blasphemies that I always sign.

But I will never donate to TFP or America Needs Fatima now that I have realized they are distorting Our Lord's words.

Imagine if these numbers realized the truth and started praying for a proper consecration of Russia to Mary's Immaculate Heart.

Maybe one of these new members of Fish Eaters will convince Robert Ritchie to come here and address the charges laid against him.  He's been to Fish Eaters before.

And maybe we'll be able to convince him to change his ways and lead his members on the right path.  Imagine if all the Fatima apostolates were unified towards the same goal; praying for a proper consecration of Russia to Mary's Immaculate Heart.

At 1:15 in the video at the top of that TFP page that I posted a guy says "we have enough people just right over there to conquer Europe".  I certainly hope he is meaning with prayer.  If Catholic militancy goes beyond prayer and protest it just may backfire and lead to Catholic persecutions.

The page also says "We were prepared by a weekend of talks, culminating with addresses by His Imperial and Royal Highness Prince Bertrand of Orleans-Braganza and His Highness, Duke Paul von Oldenburg."  If TFP thinks that the future Great Monarch is going to be picked by man they are sadly mistaken.  Just like in Gedeon's time (Book of Judges chapters 6 to 8 ) the Great Monarch as well as his forces will be picked by God Himself.  See this thread.
http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/inde...365.0.html
Thanks for going over all this with me. You have revealed some important things to me that I would not have picked up by myself (I blame the kids  :grin:).
Your welcome verenaerin.  I'm glad you asked to give me a chance to post it.
(01-28-2012, 08:41 PM)mikemac Wrote: [ -> ]For sure verenaerin, very diabolical on the part of satan to confuse people like this.  Today I received an email from TFP Student Action that included this link.
https://www.tfpstudentaction.org/what-we-do/street-campaigns/march-for-life-draws-multitude-of-pro-life-youth.html?utm_source=sm&utm_medium=email&utm_content=SAE0111&utm_campaign=MainNewsletter

The other day I posted a comment on this TFP Student Action page saying, "Very impressive.  It's a shame that America Needs Fatima is distorting Our Lord's words by adding one word, "too"."  And I linked to Reply #42 above in my comment.  But the administrator of the TFP Student Action site did not include my comment.  This gives me the impression that those that are running TFP and America Needs Fatima, like Robert Ritchie, are not doing this innocently but know of their deception.
mikemac, didn't TPF grow out of the Blue Army. Wasn't it a cousin of the leader who started it. I seem to recall something in one of Fr. Gruners "Crusaders" about Fr. Kramer exposing some lies about Sister Lucy saying the concecration was done. The Blue Army appeared to have ties to high ranking cardinals in the vatican. I believe Blue Army membership dropped because of this.
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