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Full Version: A good quote about the Holy Fathers recent address.
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From Stephen Dupuy:

"On January 27, Pope Benedict XVI addressed this plenary session discussing Tradition, ecumenism, and Vatican II.  Although the address said some good things (including condemnations of irenicism and indifferentism), a few statements are enough to give Traditionalists some pause. First, the Pope states, “We can see today not few good fruits born of the ecumenical dialogues..." The obvious Traditional response to this statement is to ask: “Such as?”  The Pope fails to mention any specifically in his address. Since the only legitimate fruit of any ecumenical discussion is the conversion of non-Catholics to Catholicism, where is the evidence that this been brought about through ecumenism?"
Even though I don't think his writings are very convincing, Dave Armstrong (mentioned on FE of late) says there is an important distinction between apologetics and ecumenism, and that the latter really isn't about the conversions at all, while the former is all about conversions. I think he may actually be on to something there.

Which always leads me to wonder why so much effort is spent on ecumenism. I can see arguments for building "dialogue" but oughtn't it be a mean to begin apologetics rather than an end?
(01-28-2012, 12:19 PM)Richard C Wrote: [ -> ]Even though I don't think his writings are very convincing, Dave Armstrong (mentioned on FE of late) says there is an important distinction between apologetics and ecumenism, and that the latter really isn't about the conversions at all, while the former is all about conversions. I think he may actually be on to something there.

Which always leads me to wonder why so much effort is spent on ecumenism. I can see arguments for building "dialogue" but oughtn't it be a mean to begin apologetics rather than an end?
I've heard that Muslims are into evangelizing (as are Mormons), while the Catholic Church, because of the ecumenical slant on things now, is in a dialogue mode.
Which converts nobody.
He's soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo disappointed right now.
[Image: PopePiusXII.jpg]
(01-28-2012, 03:56 PM)SaintAndrew Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-28-2012, 12:19 PM)Richard C Wrote: [ -> ]Even though I don't think his writings are very convincing, Dave Armstrong (mentioned on FE of late) says there is an important distinction between apologetics and ecumenism, and that the latter really isn't about the conversions at all, while the former is all about conversions. I think he may actually be on to something there.

Which always leads me to wonder why so much effort is spent on ecumenism. I can see arguments for building "dialogue" but oughtn't it be a mean to begin apologetics rather than an end?
I've heard that Muslims are into evangelizing (as are Mormons), while the Catholic Church, because of the ecumenical slant on things now, is in a dialogue mode.
Which converts nobody.
He's soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo disappointed right now.
[Image: PopePiusXII.jpg]

It's worth pointing out that Mormonism and Islam are false faiths which no explicit prohibition on contraception, but are the fastest growing faiths on earth, while Christ's church languishes under the burden of massive contraceptive abuse and rejection of even basic church teaching.  Those right there, are the fruits of treating all religions as good.
(01-28-2012, 11:44 AM)Old Salt Wrote: [ -> ]From Stephen Dupuy:

"On January 27, Pope Benedict XVI addressed this plenary session discussing Tradition, ecumenism, and Vatican II.  Although the address said some good things (including condemnations of irenicism and indifferentism), a few statements are enough to give Traditionalists some pause. First, the Pope states, “We can see today not few good fruits born of the ecumenical dialogues..." The obvious Traditional response to this statement is to ask: “Such as?”  The Pope fails to mention any specifically in his address. Since the only legitimate fruit of any ecumenical discussion is the conversion of non-Catholics to Catholicism, where is the evidence that this been brought about through ecumenism?"

Anglicanorum Coetibus