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I'm not on your back, SCG. If only you would realize that.

That was directed to Ms. Jayne. I should not have said that as I realize now that you may not know the history behind it. Nor do I wish to get in the habit of building a psychological profile based on a person's handle. A very feminine approach from one asking for a masculine one. Again that is addressed to Ms. Jayne.

I was the class clown myself. Now I earn a living because of that personality trait. So you should love me!

As far as the henpecking comment, I could not resist, being the perpetual class clown that I am. But I meant it in good fun and as a joke.

When you said, you did not appreciate that first comment, I could not resist the second one. Part of the class clown pesonae.

Maybe I'm just a clown. I meant no offense and if I have been a bit hasty, I do apologize.
(02-01-2012, 03:00 PM)Adam Wayne Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not on your back, SCG. If only you would realize that.

That was directed to Ms. Jayne. I should not have said that as I realize now that you may not know the history behind it. Nor do I wish to get in the habit of building a psychological profile based on a person's handle. A very feminine approach from one asking for a masculine one. Again that is addressed to Ms. Jayne.

I was the class clown myself. Now I earn a living because of that personality trait. So you should love me!

As far as the henpecking comment, I could not resist, being the perpetual class clown that I am. But I meant it in good fun and as a joke.

When you said, you did not appreciate that first comment, I could not resist the second one. Part of the class clown pesonae.

Maybe I'm just a clown. I meant no offense and if I have been a bit hasty, I do apologize.

Okay, cool. And I can appreciate a joke, for sure.. Have you checked out my post to your thread in the Cornfield yet?

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/inde...466.0.html  LOL
Lisa, or SCG, has been around here for some years now. She attends the Novus Ordo and, as far as I know, works in a parish. While there are inevitable disagreements concerning a few topics, I'm positively sure she's in good faith, sharing her journey in Christ with us and willing to change her views if a cogent rebutal is presented. So, there's no need to single her out as if she were a true modernist. It's a rash and unmerited accusation.

The same thing for Iolanthe. She's been around Fish Eaters for quite some time too. She attends the TLM and has priests in her family. Although very opinionated and occasionally coming across as bitter when it comes to male-female topics, a healthy benefit of the doubt and sheer courtesy should be shown to her. Simply accusing her of being a feminist, even if in a veiled manner, is also rash and unmerited and does not accomplish anything but to foment antagonism.

All disagreements with fellow sisters in Christ should be dealt with in the most gentlemanly manner possible.
(02-01-2012, 08:41 AM)JayneK Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-01-2012, 12:22 AM)Iolanthe Wrote: [ -> ]Furthermore, the true mark of feminism is thinking that women should imitate men because masculinity is superior. That would make you one, Jayne.

I do not freak out when somebody calls me a feminist.  I really did used to be one, but I have repented of my errors.  I don't think you are a feminist, Iolanthe, but you sound way angrier than makes sense.  Something is pushing your buttons.  I hope you can work through whatever it is and come to peace with it. 

What's making me angry is that every time I make a valid point and somebody doesn't like it, they accuse me of feminism because they're too lazy to work through why they don't like what I said. In this case, I got accused of feminism because I supposedly "used a sarcastic tone." It's a total farce.
(02-01-2012, 03:27 PM)Iolanthe Wrote: [ -> ]What's making me angry is that every time I make a valid point and somebody doesn't like it, they accuse me of feminism because they're too lazy to work through why they don't like what I said. In this case, I got accused of feminism because I supposedly "used a sarcastic tone." It's a total farce.

Iolanthe, I often get this sort of impression about your tone too.  I often perceive it as angry and sarcastic. I think you would benefit from thinking about this rather than dismissing it as a farce.  Sometimes people are too quick to use the f-word but there is more to it than that.  Please discuss it with someone you trust and pray about it.  I am not trying to put you down.  I am genuinely concerned.
I don't get the hate for sarcasm. It's a legitimate mode of expression. Jonathan Swift would never have lasted here. It's not the tone that is the problem. Just when people are shown how ridiculous their positions are they they no longer want to talk about the issue at hand and start complaining about sarcasm and tone.

Kind of like the people who feigned mock indignation over Swift's suggestion to eat Irish babies rather than addressing his scathing critique of the treatment of the Irish.   
(02-01-2012, 03:00 PM)Adam Wayne Wrote: [ -> ]That was directed to Ms. Jayne. I should not have said that as I realize now that you may not know the history behind it. Nor do I wish to get in the habit of building a psychological profile based on a person's handle. A very feminine approach from one asking for a masculine one. Again that is addressed to Ms. Jayne.

Now you are teasing me. Please don't call me "Ms. Jayne" even in jest.  I am really sorry for the things I thought and did as a feminist and don't want the "Ms" that they introduced put with my name.  If you don't like plain Jayne, you could call me Mrs. NOtard, after my husband's screen name.  Or there is always Princess Jayne.  :)
(02-01-2012, 03:20 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: [ -> ]Lisa, or SCG, has been around here for some years now. She attends the Novus Ordo and, as far as I know, works in a parish. While there are inevitable disagreements concerning a few topics, I'm positively sure she's in good faith, sharing her journey in Christ with us and willing to change her views if a cogent rebutal is presented. So, there's no need to single her out as if she were a true modernist. It's a rash and unmerited accusation.

The same thing for Iolanthe. She's been around Fish Eaters for quite some time too. She attends the TLM and has priests in her family. Although very opinionated and occasionally coming across as bitter when it comes to male-female topics, a healthy benefit of the doubt and sheer courtesy should be shown to her. Simply accusing her of being a feminist, even if in a veiled manner, is also rash and unmerited and does not accomplish anything but to foment antagonism.

All disagreements with fellow sisters in Christ should be dealt with in the most gentlemanly manner possible.

Well said Vetus Ordo, well said. It would be very much in an imitation of Christ, if we each scabbard our sharp tongues.

tim 
(02-01-2012, 01:43 PM)Warrenton Wrote: [ -> ]Correct me if I am wrong, but Iolanthe's original point was nothing more than women have as much a role in the Church's life as men, and men who don't accept that fact are mistaken.  For laypeople, this is certainly true.  And 90 percent of the Church is laypeople.  I read her comment in the context of laypeople like ourselves; the differing roles of a nun and a pope in the Church are well known to all of us.  This is probably one of the few forums where the particpants actually agree about that. 

Why, then, did that comment spark such interest?  Because traditionalists, especially Catholic ones, have been under constant assault from deconstructionist radicals for the past half century.  We are as sensitive to the attack as airport security officers are to jokes about bombs.    Feminism today, like political homosexuality or racism, has been honed to an edge that slices any traditionalist who picks it up.  The only approach is to attack it as an idea, to reveal the evils that have been perpetrated in its name, to deny its substance.  Stat rosa nomine, nomina rosa tenemus. 

Thank you. This describes what's going on perfectly, although I would disagree that most traditionalists are under assault from feminists. Most have never even met a feminist, and are fortunate to be able to live and practice their faith without persecution. They simple have a paranoia about it and a lot of other things which they should try to get under control instead of shadow-boxing on the internet.
(02-01-2012, 03:54 PM)Someone1776 Wrote: [ -> ]I don't get the hate for sarcasm. It's a legitimate mode of expression. Jonathan Swift would never have lasted here. It's not the tone that is the problem. Just when people are shown how ridiculous their positions are they they no longer want to talk about the issue at hand and start complaining about sarcasm and tone.

Kind of like the people who feigned mock indignation over Swift's suggestion to eat Irish babies rather than addressing his scathing critique of the treatment of the Irish.   

What really gets me is that I wasn't even being sarcastic. Guardian just sensed something he didn't like about my comment, couldn't describe what it was, and settled on "well you sounded sarcastic so you must be a feminist."
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