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(02-07-2012, 12:12 AM)Walty Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-06-2012, 10:40 PM)DrBombay Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, you might want to take some of the stories in that book with a grain of salt.  SOME, not all.

Here's the deal, and the review below makes the same point.  Just because some guy leaves the seminary doesn't mean he's being persecuted.  Let me give you an example.  Seminarian X is a devout young man.  He's always early to the chapel for Mass, Lauds, Vespers, Adoration or any other liturgical function. He can often be seen in the chapel sitting quietly meditating, praying his rosary or doing spiritual reading.  He's diligent in his academic studies and does well.  He completes all of his house jobs and other seminary responsibilities promptly and without complaint.  Perfection, right?  Well...the problem is he spends all of his spare time in his room, reading O'Connell and Fortescue.  He has a custom made cassock with a watered silk fascia from Rome which he wears all the time and speaks with disdain to anyone who will listen of the seminary cassock he's asked to wear on special occasions.  He's also quite proud of his lacy surplice.

So why would Seminarian X get bounced from the seminary?  For praying too much?  Studying too hard?  Being too responsible? 

Nope.  For being a rubrical egghead.  For being someone who could name in intricate detail the 7 different shades of liturgical rose but couldn't name the 7 corporal works of mercy if he had a gun pointed at his biretta.  We don't need more liturgical fancy boys in the priesthood.  Take the cassock off, put on a pair of jeans and go spend a couple of hours with your brother seminarians drinking beer and/or otherwise acting like a normal human being. 

I definitely know what you're talking about here, but it doesn't have to be either or.  The priesthood needs men to remain in their cassocks, but to understand that this doesn't give them some mandate to be as persnickety and precocious as they want. 

The seminaries are already full with a lot of guys who are all too ready to don jeans and act like they're not a priest.  The key is to respect and love the Church and your office as priest without being weird about it.  Unfortunately, the Church is seen, at best, as a quaint but trivial institution by most folks these days.  A lot of the guys who go off to seminary aren't your typical dude, but are attracted to the Church in the same way that 25 year olds in basements across the US are attracted to Dungeons and Dragons.


(02-07-2012, 12:44 AM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-07-2012, 12:36 AM)Walty Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-07-2012, 12:26 AM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: [ -> ]HK and I are thinking about compiling a list of changes and reforms for the parish life and the clergy of the roman rite, a programme that would hopefully bring about a more balanced Church, more vital, manly and in touch with her rich patristic and medieval past but also ready to face the challenges of a dire future in the secularised Western world.

What are some examples?

One of the steps is already quite well known: the restoration of the minor orders. HK did a good job with that one. Other things will follow, some admittedly less important than others: from the chanting of the divine office in all parishes (at least one or two canonical hours) to the edified sporting of beards by the Latin clergy, a practice taken from our Eastern brethren. We'd appreciate your inputs, suggestions and criticisms. This could be a team effort, not a solo run like Eli's last night.
Make them coach the schools football team!!  :grin:
I have heard enough from priests to know that the problem of homosexual priests is not in the imagination of traditionalists. In many dioceses it is precisely those men who are known to the respective hierarchy as homosexual who are promoted to positions of power and, so, are able to screen applicants for seminary.
Things have been improving since this book came out. But the reading of it does help us to understand where we came from and the terrible difficulties of faithful, orthodox vocations to enter the priesthood in years past. And many men who came through that era were less than stellar, shall we say, and their formation was poor.

You might also want to read "Fatifhful Departed" by Phil Lawler which chronicles the demise of the faith in Boston.

The Rite of Sodomy by Randy England is a book that I skimmed but could not even keep in the house; the evil written of was such that I could hardly stand it.
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