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Full Version: What would a person say to this picture about Jesus and homosexuality?
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A pro-homo marriage person sent me this once.

[Image: jesus-gay-300x185.jpg]
You have to argue from a Catholic standpoint.  You can use what Paul says against homosexuality and you can use natural law.  Christ himself never says sodomy is wrong in the gospel.  He also never says it's right.  He also never explicitly says not to kill, although he expounds on the 5th commandment. 

If someone's argument in favor of gay marriage is that Jesus never said it was wrong, they really don't have an argument, and they definitely don't have any proper understanding of the theology and philosophy around why gay relations are wrong.  It's akin to saying "the bible says love your neighbor, so we should let people do what they want."  There is a fundamental misunderstanding here that goes so far beyond one single point.

If you want a snappy one-liner, I'd try:  "Yes, but as Jesus said about marriage:  'God made them male and female.' or 'for this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife.'"

Ultimately, these people (save rare exceptions) are looking for an excuse, not real answers.

But if they want real answers, Jesus founded a Church for that.  He who has ears to hear it, let him hear.
(02-08-2012, 02:43 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote: [ -> ]You have to argue from a Catholic standpoint.  You can use what Paul says against homosexuality and you can use natural law.  Christ himself never says sodomy is wrong in the gospel.  He also never says it's right.  He also never explicitly says not to kill, although he expounds on the 5th commandment. 

If someone's argument in favor of gay marriage is that Jesus never said it was wrong, they really don't have an argument, and they definitely don't have any proper understanding of the theology and philosophy around why gay relations are wrong.  It's akin to saying "the bible says love your neighbor, so we should let people do what they want."  There is a fundamental misunderstanding here that goes so far beyond one single point.
Thank you very much for your help - as a baby Catholic, these people come at me in flocks.
(02-08-2012, 02:44 PM)SaintAndrew Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-08-2012, 02:43 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote: [ -> ]You have to argue from a Catholic standpoint.  You can use what Paul says against homosexuality and you can use natural law.  Christ himself never says sodomy is wrong in the gospel.  He also never says it's right.  He also never explicitly says not to kill, although he expounds on the 5th commandment. 

If someone's argument in favor of gay marriage is that Jesus never said it was wrong, they really don't have an argument, and they definitely don't have any proper understanding of the theology and philosophy around why gay relations are wrong.  It's akin to saying "the bible says love your neighbor, so we should let people do what they want."  There is a fundamental misunderstanding here that goes so far beyond one single point.
Thank you very much for your help - as a baby Catholic, these people come at me in flocks.

You're welcome, although I didn't see my post as particularly helpful!  LOL 

It really shouldn't take long- just looking at the world for a good year through Catholic eyes will train you to differentiate who is actually searching for answers.  In my experience (which is just my own- it may be different for others) most are not interested in answers, but in a fight.  It's kind of a pearls/swine thing.  Do not cast your pearls to swine.  Most people will benefit far more from prayer than from a discussion.  You just have to be able to tell who is who.

Would that gay person kill someone and then tell the judge that his parents never told him not to kill?  Not especially analogous, but you see how it's not a legitimate argument, yes?  It distracts from the issue and the actual argument.

TBH, the Catholic Church speaking up and spreading itself wide is the only solution.  Non-Catholic Christians do not have the answers the Catholic Church does, so they can only argue so long when it comes down to it.  Their religion is false, and considering that most Christians are not practicing Catholics (how sad!) we are left with a mainstream joke to fight liberalism and modernism. 
You could remind him that Jesus didn't say anything about rape but we know it's wrong for other reasons.
Paul speaks clearly against these sins in Romans chapter 1. The problem is these folks want an admonition like in thou shalt not, fill in the blank, from the lips of Jesus. They are Sola Scriptura as if Tradition has no use. It would take years to bring them up to speed so they could understand your argument. They completely throw off the OT  which condemns this.

I'm no help, sorry.

tim
(02-08-2012, 02:58 PM)Tim Wrote: [ -> ]Paul speaks clearly against these sins in Romans chapter 1. The problem is these folks want an admonition like in thou shalt not, fill in the blank, from the lips of Jesus. They are Sola Scriptura as if Tradition has no use. It would take years to bring them up to speed so they could understand your argument. They completely throw off the OT  which condemns this.

I'm no help, sorry.

tim

Matthew 12 v 39 Wrote:[38] Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered him, saying: Master we would see a sign from thee. [39] Who answering said to them: An evil and adulterous generation seeketh a sign: and a sign shall not be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.

You're right on, Tim.

I was also sent this at one point. The twisting of scripture is sick. They'll try anything to spin things their way..
The problem is that many believe them... Puke
[Image: faithinamerica.jpg]
I once listened to an interview of Christopher Hitchens where the subject of Christianity and homosexually came up. The interviewer attempted to do what your friend did with that picture, and suggest that Jesus wasn't against homosexuality. Hitchens (correctly in my view) pointed out that Jesus said he had come not to destroy the law but fullfill it. So in his view the fact that Jesus said nothing about the subject is indicative of his agreement with the old testament sexual morality. I think it is a fair argument and it would be helpful in the sense that you could cite liberal atheist Christopher Hitchens as agreeing with you on this point. I'll search for the clip later and if I find it I'll edit this post to include it.

You could also point out the plain fact that Jesus was a Jewish rabbi in the first century. No one on planet earth at that time would have shared modern man's conception of sexual morality. It is true of course that among some cultures such as the Roman's homosexuality was practiced, but this was done by a small section of wealthy elite. Even among those men they would have laughed at the idea of someone being inherently homosexual and would have considered someone who was only attracted to members of the same sex as strange and probably mentally ill.
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