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(02-15-2012, 07:54 AM)Melkite Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-15-2012, 06:05 AM)TrentCath Wrote: [ -> ]Here you go attacking western practices again and further making suspect statements:

Quote: Christ himself said no one has life in him unless he eats his flesh and drinks his blood

Seems to imply someone must communicate in order to be saved, this is true as regards adults who have the use of reason, false as regards children as the Council of Trent makes clear.

I was just quoting Christ.  He didn't qualify that it was only necessary for adults.  The fact you can call Christ's own words suspect when they're not saying what you want them to say shows no more discussion is possible with you.  Take care!

Nice sidestep but no, the issue is not with Christs words but with your abuse in applying them and with your inability to refrain from criticising the western church and make statements suspect of heresy, a habit which appears to be quite common among eastern catholics.
(02-15-2012, 08:37 AM)TrentCath Wrote: [ -> ]Nice sidestep but no, the issue is not with Christs words but with your abuse in applying them and with your inability to refrain from criticising the western church and make statements suspect of heresy, a habit which appears to be quite common among eastern catholics.

It appears common among Eastern Catholics to you because you presume a priori that our views are heretical.  You see the devil behind every tree because you're looking for him there.
Melkite, I ws actually surprised that the Melkites were not administering Holy communion and Chrismation the same time as baptism.  When did this stop with the Melkites?  I ask because we, Ruthenians, do it now and as far back as anyone I know can remember.
TrentCath,

Seriously, lay off the "YOUR A HERETIC" rhetoric.  You've used it so much its lost its affect and you've twisted the term to the point that it simply means "ANYONE WHO DOES NOT AGREE WITH TRENTCATH"

The way I have always understood the difference is thus ...

Roman Rite - The person should reach the age of reason and know what they are doing in order to receive Holy Communion and Chrismation.  Thus, 1st Holy communion and Chrismation are sort of "Rites of Passage" so to speak.

Eastern Rite - Its a bad world and people need all of the help that they can get, so give them Holy Communion and Chrismation to help them.

Its a simplification, but I can see both sides.  Different strokes for different folks.
(02-15-2012, 01:17 PM)AxxeArp Wrote: [ -> ]Melkite, I ws actually surprised that the Melkites were not administering Holy communion and Chrismation the same time as baptism.  When did this stop with the Melkites?  I ask because we, Ruthenians, do it now and as far back as anyone I know can remember.

It must be a parish by parish problem.  At my parish, children are chrismated and receive 1st communion when they are baptized.  But, my parish is the most traditional in the eparchy.  I wasn't aware other parishes are doing it the Latin way, but apparently some are.  Judging by the priests I have met from other parishes, I think the majority of Melkite parishes do it the correct Eastern way (I said 'correct Eastern way', not 'correct, Eastern way', trent).  I think it must only be a few who are still doing it the Latin way.
(02-15-2012, 01:24 PM)AxxeArp Wrote: [ -> ]TrentCath,

Seriously, lay off the "YOUR A HERETIC" rhetoric.  You've used it so much its lost its affect and you've twisted the term to the point that it simply means "ANYONE WHO DOES NOT AGREE WITH TRENTCATH"

The way I have always understood the difference is thus ...

Roman Rite - The person should reach the age of reason and know what they are doing in order to receive Holy Communion and Chrismation.  Thus, 1st Holy communion and Chrismation are sort of "Rites of Passage" so to speak.

Eastern Rite - Its a bad world and people need all of the help that they can get, so give them Holy Communion and Chrismation to help them.

Its a simplification, but I can see both sides.  Different strokes for different folks.

+1
(02-15-2012, 01:24 PM)AxxeArp Wrote: [ -> ]TrentCath,

Seriously, lay off the "YOUR A HERETIC" rhetoric.  You've used it so much its lost its affect and you've twisted the term to the point that it simply means "ANYONE WHO DOES NOT AGREE WITH TRENTCATH"

The way I have always understood the difference is thus ...

Roman Rite - The person should reach the age of reason and know what they are doing in order to receive Holy Communion and Chrismation.  Thus, 1st Holy communion and Chrismation are sort of "Rites of Passage" so to speak.

Eastern Rite - Its a bad world and people need all of the help that they can get, so give them Holy Communion and Chrismation to help them.

Its a simplification, but I can see both sides.  Different strokes for different folks.

Rubbish.

If one goes around trashing the western Church and suggesting it has been endangering souls for several hundred years one is hardly going to get a pleasant response  :eyeroll:

If you had actually bothered to check my posts before spouting your nonsensical accusations you'd notice that I did not say 'you're a heretic' but that the statement was suspect of heresy and that such statements have only been made by me twice or at most three times.

I will not lay off when such scandalous and insulting accusations are made and if you don't like that tough
(02-15-2012, 01:12 PM)Melkite Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-15-2012, 08:37 AM)TrentCath Wrote: [ -> ]Nice sidestep but no, the issue is not with Christs words but with your abuse in applying them and with your inability to refrain from criticising the western church and make statements suspect of heresy, a habit which appears to be quite common among eastern catholics.

It appears common among Eastern Catholics to you because you presume a priori that our views are heretical.  You see the devil behind every tree because you're looking for him there.

False, again. It's a well known fact that many eastern catholics have erroneous views on the eclessiology of the Church, the nature of the Popes powers and ecumenical councils.
(02-15-2012, 03:17 PM)TrentCath Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-15-2012, 01:12 PM)Melkite Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-15-2012, 08:37 AM)TrentCath Wrote: [ -> ]Nice sidestep but no, the issue is not with Christs words but with your abuse in applying them and with your inability to refrain from criticising the western church and make statements suspect of heresy, a habit which appears to be quite common among eastern catholics.

It appears common among Eastern Catholics to you because you presume a priori that our views are heretical.  You see the devil behind every tree because you're looking for him there.

False, again. It's a well known fact that many eastern catholics have erroneous views on the eclessiology of the Church, the nature of the Popes powers and ecumenical councils.

"Well known" is it?  So, you are using the force of rumor in order to hold Easter Catholics as guilty until proven innocent?  Very Christian of you.  They think differently than you, because of culture and heritage.  That does not mean they are heretics.
(02-15-2012, 03:23 PM)Parmandur Wrote: [ -> ]So, you are using the force of rumor in order to hold Easter Catholics as guilty until proven innocent? Very Christian of you.

Actually, to be considered guilty until proven innocent was a well established principle of medieval jurisprudence concerning a subject suspect of a crime.

Quote:They think differently than you, because of culture and heritage.  That does not mean they are heretics.

Of course not, but keep in mind that Eastern Catholics in the United States, for instance, share he same culture and language of Western Catholics. There shouldn't be so many excuses for communication breakdowns.
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