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Full Version: "Who is the priest who denied a lesbian woman Communion?"
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(03-03-2012, 10:41 PM)Revixit Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not sure there are any truly repentant masturbators; I say anybody who's only confessed masturbation once or twice is a liar. It's really difficult for people to give up sexual sins because humans have such strong sex drives.

You're wrong, of course.  At least that one was easy to clear up.
Quote:In fairness, then, I'd say that for the masturbator "Of course this penitence must include separation from near occasions of sin and of scandalous living circumstances. Continuing to live with your right hand (or left hand if you're a southpaw, both if you're ambidextrous), continuing to frequent bars (?) and nightclubs, to watch T & A shows or movies, Victoria's Secret commercials, to look at Playboy, Penthouse, Hustler, porn mags would be evidence of a lack of penitence and a lack of firm purpose of amendment."

Apart from your inane and crass comment at the beginning - which gives the impression that you still can't grasp the concept of a firm purpose of amendment - yes, continuing to do pretty much any of those things would likely demonstrate a lack of contrition.  What's your point?


This week, I've concluded that the Forums need to be exorcised or closed. 

As Dr. Mumbai put it in another thread, we spend a lot of time "reading all these 20 something women hating habitual masturbators". 

I'm done with this.
Revixit, your latest post is concerning.

There is an obvious difference between someone who through force of habit commits the sin of self abuse and a homosexual living in sin and engaging in sin accordingly.  To take your 'keeping of a hand' comment to its logical conclusion, I suppose one would need a lobotomy to be 'truly penitent' because it is with our disordered minds that we choose to sin.

A solid Priest concerned for his spiritual children will judge to what degree the penitent is ordering his life such that this sin occurs.  For example, the inclusion of pornography increases the gravity of this sin.  If someone were to skip doing something important in order to do this sin, or if it led him to being late on something, that would elevate its severity, too.

But reasonably approach this from a legitimately pastoral perspective: Our culture in America and Europe is entirely not ordered around the Church (morals, holidays, devotions, the liturgical calendar, etc.), is awash in lust and extreme immodesty, and the ease of either imagining or obtaining unchaste scenes is practically effortless and without cost.

It is not the case given a situation of two (or more) people live together to ape marriage or simply to have immediate access to homosexual acts.  The comparison is simply not useful except to illustrate a wide gulf of distinction.
(03-03-2012, 10:54 PM)Revixit Wrote: [ -> ]This week, I've concluded that the Forums need to be exorcised or closed. 

As Dr. Mumbai put it in another thread, we spend a lot of time "reading all these 20 something women hating habitual masturbators". 

I'm done with this.

The topic was and is a Priest being thrown under the bus for defending the Blessed Sacrament.  We did not bring up the issue of habitual masturbation.  But since you did, others responded rather chartitably and you responded with gross assumptions and sweeping declarations (close the forum because we are saying that homosexual acts -and for that matter self-abuse- are sins?)

Assuming that those who disagree with you are 'women hating habitual masturbators' is A) factually wrong B) lacks charity and C) if sincerely believed, should elicit from you some more constructive presentation that we may turn away from sin.
The only people I know who would side with the homosexual here are progressive NO types. Even conservative NO Catholics would by and large side with the priest.
(03-03-2012, 10:41 PM)Revixit Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-03-2012, 09:22 PM)wsxyz Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-03-2012, 08:25 PM)Revixit Wrote: [ -> ]Onanism is usually a synonym for masturbation.  Onan's sin is quite often committed today, and by Fisheaters, I'm sure.  Rarely does anyone give up that particular sin, either.  Should those who commit Onan's sin be denied absolution when they confess it and answer honestly how often they've committed it?   Should they therefore be denied Communion throughout their lives?

Think on that.  Think long and hard on it.

It seems to me that you are completely confused.

If someone has masturbated and is truly penitent and sorrowful for having done so, and resolves firmly to amend his life and sin no more, then that person makes their confession, receives absolution, and then may receive Holy Communion. Similarly, someone who has committed homosexual acts, and is truly penitent and sorrowful for having done so, and resolves firmly to amend his life and sin no more, and who then makes their confession and receives absolution,  may receive Holy Communion.  Of course this penitence must include separation from near occasions of sin and of scandalous living circumstances. Continuing to live with a homosexual partner or continuing to frequent gay bars and nightclubs would be evidence of a lack of penitence and a lack of firm purpose of amendment.

This really isn't that hard to understand. So I don't know why you are attempting to conflate the situation of an unrepentant, active, militant homosexual with that of a person who has truly repented and been absolved of a serious sin.

What is your real motivation?

I'm not sure there are any truly repentant masturbators; I say anybody who's only confessed masturbation once or twice is a liar. It's really difficult for people to give up sexual sins because humans have such strong sex drives.

I haven't made a survey among my acquaintances, but I believe you are wrong.

Quote:And you're saying that for the homosexual "Of course this penitence must include separation from near occasions of sin and of scandalous living circumstances. Continuing to live with a homosexual partner or continuing to frequent gay bars and nightclubs would be evidence of a lack of penitence and a lack of firm purpose of amendment."

In fairness, then, I'd say that for the masturbator "Of course this penitence must include separation from near occasions of sin and of scandalous living circumstances. Continuing to live with your right hand (or left hand if you're a southpaw, both if you're ambidextrous), continuing to frequent bars and nightclubs, to watch T & A shows or movies, Victoria's Secret commercials, to look at Playboy, Penthouse, Hustler, porn mags would be evidence of a lack of penitence and a lack of firm purpose of amendment."

Do you really think most or all devout Catholic men keep a stack of pornographic magazines under the bed? Really?

I am sure that the biggest problem for Catholic men these days is the absurdly easy access to pornography on the internet. Those Catholic men who find that too great a temptation to bear, definitely should avoid the occasion of sin by removing the opportunity to use a computer in private.
So, because others disagree with you, some citing Church teachings and laws, it's okay to bring up or say that there are many young men on this forum engaged in solitary vice? Unbelievable.

This involves public sin. Public. Sin. The woman even introduced her lesbian lover to the priest before Mass. This isn't a case where someone caught the women doing something, and whispered to the priest before Mass.

If you want to dismiss arguments purely based on age or emotion, and not what the Church teaches, okay.
Here's another reference to the axiom, "Hate the sin, but love the sinner":

"Nothing prevents one and the same thing being loved under one aspect, while it is hated under another.  God loves sinners in so far as they are existing natures; for they have existence and have it from Him.  In so far as they are sinners, they have not existence at all, but fall short of it; and this in them is not from God.  Hence under this aspect, they are hated by Him" (St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologiae, I, q. 20, a. 2, ad 4).

See also Wisdom 11:25 - "Thou lovest all things that are, and hatest none of the things which Thou hast made."

http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1020.htm
(03-03-2012, 10:54 PM)Revixit Wrote: [ -> ]This week, I've concluded that the Forums need to be exorcised or closed. 

As Dr. Mumbai put it in another thread, we spend a lot of time "reading all these 20 something women hating habitual masturbators". 

I'm done with this.

And now, the real outpouring of charity!  :LOL:
I have no idea if this has been posted already but the NY Daily News is running a poll on whether the priest should be "removed
from the archdiocese: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national...-1.1031166

C.
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