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(03-22-2012, 07:17 PM)Stubborn Wrote: [ -> ]Of course the Church is an institution both divine and human. Of course the divine element cannot fail, so of course the Church cannot ultimately fail, and the sun will rise again. But one may beg to differ when you say that the dawn is close at hand, because that true Faith which the SSPX upheld in the Discussions is not shining out from the Rome of Vatican II, where accordingly the SSPX could not be in safety. Nor could it bring light if itself it adopted the Conciliar darkness.

If you bring a light into a dark room, the room gets lit.

Obviously, Bishop Williamson believes that if you bring light into a dark room it gets "adopted to darkness".
(03-24-2012, 04:47 PM)Freudentaumel Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-22-2012, 07:17 PM)Stubborn Wrote: [ -> ]Of course the Church is an institution both divine and human. Of course the divine element cannot fail, so of course the Church cannot ultimately fail, and the sun will rise again. But one may beg to differ when you say that the dawn is close at hand, because that true Faith which the SSPX upheld in the Discussions is not shining out from the Rome of Vatican II, where accordingly the SSPX could not be in safety. Nor could it bring light if itself it adopted the Conciliar darkness.

If you bring a light into a dark room, the room gets lit.

Obviously, Bishop Williamson believes that if you bring light into a dark room it gets "adopted to darkness".

If the light can't be maintained, it will go out.  A room can be dark because it doesn't have the environment for light.  A candle needs air to burn, if the air is sucked out of a dark room, then the light will go out. 

If you've got a flashlight and you can bring it into the dark room but only if you follow the rules and remove the batteries, what good is it if you  adopted the rules of the dark room? 
(03-24-2012, 10:44 PM)Gerard Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-24-2012, 04:47 PM)Freudentaumel Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-22-2012, 07:17 PM)Stubborn Wrote: [ -> ]Of course the Church is an institution both divine and human. Of course the divine element cannot fail, so of course the Church cannot ultimately fail, and the sun will rise again. But one may beg to differ when you say that the dawn is close at hand, because that true Faith which the SSPX upheld in the Discussions is not shining out from the Rome of Vatican II, where accordingly the SSPX could not be in safety. Nor could it bring light if itself it adopted the Conciliar darkness.

If you bring a light into a dark room, the room gets lit.

Obviously, Bishop Williamson believes that if you bring light into a dark room it gets "adopted to darkness".

If the light can't be maintained, it will go out.  A room can be dark because it doesn't have the environment for light.  A candle needs air to burn, if the air is sucked out of a dark room, then the light will go out. 

If you've got a flashlight and you can bring it into the dark room but only if you follow the rules and remove the batteries, what good is it if you  adopted the rules of the dark room? 
Well stated.
(03-24-2012, 10:44 PM)Gerard Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-24-2012, 04:47 PM)Freudentaumel Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-22-2012, 07:17 PM)Stubborn Wrote: [ -> ]Of course the Church is an institution both divine and human. Of course the divine element cannot fail, so of course the Church cannot ultimately fail, and the sun will rise again. But one may beg to differ when you say that the dawn is close at hand, because that true Faith which the SSPX upheld in the Discussions is not shining out from the Rome of Vatican II, where accordingly the SSPX could not be in safety. Nor could it bring light if itself it adopted the Conciliar darkness.

If you bring a light into a dark room, the room gets lit.

Obviously, Bishop Williamson believes that if you bring light into a dark room it gets "adopted to darkness".

If the light can't be maintained, it will go out.  A room can be dark because it doesn't have the environment for light.  A candle needs air to burn, if the air is sucked out of a dark room, then the light will go out. 

If you've got a flashlight and you can bring it into the dark room but only if you follow the rules and remove the batteries, what good is it if you  adopted the rules of the dark room? 
But Bishop Williamson doesn't talk about any rules. Bishop Fellay believes that the SSPX should reconcile, if Rome takes them "as they are", with no additional restrictions. Bishop Williamson believes that the SSPX would get "adopted to darkness", if they reconciled, no matter what.
His faith in the light of Christ, in the force of truth and in the SSPX's priests can't be very high.
(03-25-2012, 06:37 AM)Freudentaumel Wrote: [ -> ]But Bishop Williamson doesn't talk about any rules. Bishop Fellay believes that the SSPX should reconcile, if Rome takes them "as they are", with no additional restrictions. Bishop Williamson believes that the SSPX would get "adopted to darkness", if they reconciled, no matter what.
His faith in the light of Christ, in the force of truth and in the SSPX's priests can't be very high.

Bishop Williamson and Bishop Fellay cannot stop a "reconciliation" if they wanted to.  The Pope could give them regular status, independent faculties and tell them to go on doing what they've been doing if he really wanted. 

But he wants something else from the SSPX and it's not doctrinally sound priests, good liturgy and fidelity to the perennial teachings of the Church.  He wants room for Vatican II to be incorporated into the SSPX.

Bishop Williamson does have faith in the force of truth and the light of Christ, but he's said for years and years that the SSPX could fall, he could fall and any man could fall.  His faith in Christ is high, his faith in men is less so.  And that's very Catholic.  Bishop W. also believes that no reconciliation will happen without a compromise of the SSPX's principles. How many compromises does it take before one starts to adopt the darkness? 


(03-24-2012, 04:47 PM)Freudentaumel Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-22-2012, 07:17 PM)Stubborn Wrote: [ -> ]Of course the Church is an institution both divine and human. Of course the divine element cannot fail, so of course the Church cannot ultimately fail, and the sun will rise again. But one may beg to differ when you say that the dawn is close at hand, because that true Faith which the SSPX upheld in the Discussions is not shining out from the Rome of Vatican II, where accordingly the SSPX could not be in safety. Nor could it bring light if itself it adopted the Conciliar darkness.

If you bring a light into a dark room, the room gets lit.

Obviously, Bishop Williamson believes that if you bring light into a dark room it gets "adopted to darkness".

:tiphat:

Williamson is a clown.  Hasn't the society ordered him to stop posting his ramblings on the Internet?
I wouldn't go as far as to call him a "clown." Thats a highly inflammatory comment.
(03-25-2012, 09:57 AM)Gerard Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-25-2012, 06:37 AM)Freudentaumel Wrote: [ -> ]But Bishop Williamson doesn't talk about any rules. Bishop Fellay believes that the SSPX should reconcile, if Rome takes them "as they are", with no additional restrictions. Bishop Williamson believes that the SSPX would get "adopted to darkness", if they reconciled, no matter what.
His faith in the light of Christ, in the force of truth and in the SSPX's priests can't be very high.

Bishop Williamson and Bishop Fellay cannot stop a "reconciliation" if they wanted to.  The Pope could give them regular status, independent faculties and tell them to go on doing what they've been doing if he really wanted. 

But he wants something else from the SSPX and it's not doctrinally sound priests, good liturgy and fidelity to the perennial teachings of the Church.  He wants room for Vatican II to be incorporated into the SSPX.

Bishop Williamson does have faith in the force of truth and the light of Christ, but he's said for years and years that the SSPX could fall, he could fall and any man could fall.  His faith in Christ is high, his faith in men is less so.  And that's very Catholic.  Bishop W. also believes that no reconciliation will happen without a compromise of the SSPX's principles. How many compromises does it take before one starts to adopt the darkness? 

As usual Gerard your post is concise and accurate. 
Thank you!

That which I bolded up above in your quote, is too often overlooked and perhaps even unseen by so many.  The one thing people seem constantly to have their focus on is "what is the Pope offering the SSPX?"  But for some reason the question, "what is the Pope asking of the SSPX in return?" is not asked.

What you posted, which I bolded up above seems to be  the obvious answer. 
Though I agree with Gerard I do not share his rather somber tone I think he is being far too pessimistic. If anything I feel that this was a rather personal response to a very personal plea from Bishop to Bishop. Yet at the same time I believe that at a higher level Bishop Williamson knows that this process is almost reached its climate and odds are that the SSPX will be canonically recognized.
(03-25-2012, 12:30 PM)Parmandur Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-24-2012, 04:47 PM)Freudentaumel Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-22-2012, 07:17 PM)Stubborn Wrote: [ -> ]Of course the Church is an institution both divine and human. Of course the divine element cannot fail, so of course the Church cannot ultimately fail, and the sun will rise again. But one may beg to differ when you say that the dawn is close at hand, because that true Faith which the SSPX upheld in the Discussions is not shining out from the Rome of Vatican II, where accordingly the SSPX could not be in safety. Nor could it bring light if itself it adopted the Conciliar darkness.

If you bring a light into a dark room, the room gets lit.

Obviously, Bishop Williamson believes that if you bring light into a dark room it gets "adopted to darkness".

:tiphat:

Williamson is a clown.  Hasn't the society ordered him to stop posting his ramblings on the Internet?

Have some respect for a Catholic bishop. 
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