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3-29-2012

[Image: cardinal_martini225.jpg]

Now retired in Jerusalem, the former papabile archbishop of Milan, Cardinal Carlo Martini, has published a controversial book titled, Credere e conoscere (Faith and Understanding). As reported by LifeSiteNews[1], the cardinal writes of his opposition to Catholic moral teaching on the subject of same-sex marriages:

I disagree with the positions of those in the Church, that take issue with civil unions… It is not bad, instead of casual sex between men, that two people have a certain stability… (the) …state could recognize them...



And while agreeing with the concept of traditional marriage, Cardinal Martini goes on to say it is “not right to express any discrimination on other types of unions.”



Every Catholic knows (or at least should) that such views are in direct contravention of the natural law and Church teaching. So how has such a highly-placed cardinal – a favorite amongst liberal social justice types – come to espouse them? One might be tempted to think this has occurred since a liberal prelate would not care about such "pre-Vatican II notions" that no longer have application to contemporary society.



But the able reporting of LifeSiteNews shows that this could not possibly be the case - for Pope Benedict XVI (the advocate of Vatican II"s "Hermeutic of Continuity") as Cardinal Ratzinger (when Prefect for the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith), published in 1986 a Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on the Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons. Within the letter, Cardinal Ratzinger corrected the erroneous notion that the Church's immutable teachings on  homosexuality had been altered (due to Vatican II); consequently, the letter sought to curb the growing support that certain Catholics were giving to it:



The movement within the Church, which takes the form of pressure groups of various names and sizes, attempts to give the impression that it represents all homosexual persons who are Catholics. As a matter of fact, its membership is by and large restricted to those who either ignore the teaching of the Church or seek somehow to undermine it. It brings together under the aegis of Catholicism homosexual persons who have no intention of abandoning their homosexual behavior. One tactic used is to protest that any and all criticism of or reservations about homosexual people, their activity and lifestyle, are simply diverse forms of unjust discrimination.



And regarding so-called “Catholic” gay-lesbian groups:



No authentic pastoral program will include organizations in which homosexual persons associate with each other without clearly stating that homosexual activity is immoral. A truly pastoral approach will appreciate the need for homosexual persons to avoid the near occasions of sin.



To the average Catholic, such statements simply state the obvious – after all, how many parishes have a “Catholic Adulterers League” or “Catholic Euthanasia Group” with official “Adultery” and “Euthanasia” Masses to boot for "pastoral support"?



Continuing in his 1986 letter, Cardinal Ratzinger further explained what was the only true and solicitous pastoral care for those genuinely struggling against homosexual inclinations:



…we wish to make it clear that departure from the Church’s teaching, or silence about it, in an effort to provide pastoral care is neither caring nor pastoral. Only what is true can ultimately be pastoral. The neglect of the Church’s position prevents homosexual men and women from receiving the care they need and deserve.



Considering these comments from the current Holy Father and Cardinal Martini’s public dissent to them - and using the Vatican’s own words directed at the SSPX – one can only hope that His Eminence will be called to Rome to clarify his position or submit to a Moral Preamble “to ensure faithfulness to the Church Magisterium and sentire cum Ecclesia”, “to heal the existing rift” and thus “avoid an ecclesial rupture of painful and incalculable consequences”.


Full link
http://www.sspx.org/news/cardinal_suppor...9-2012.htm
Lets see if any papal discipline comes...
(03-29-2012, 07:37 PM)Crusader_Philly Wrote: [ -> ]Lets see if any papal discipline comes...

He's retired.  It says that in the first sentence.  Are retired clergy still subject to discipline from their supervisors?
(03-29-2012, 07:40 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote: [ -> ]He's retired.  It says that in the first sentence.  Are retired clergy still subject to discipline from their supervisors?

Any Catholic who dissents from Church teaching on morals can be disciplined by excommunication.
(03-29-2012, 07:45 PM)SaintRafael Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-29-2012, 07:40 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote: [ -> ]He's retired.  It says that in the first sentence.  Are retired clergy still subject to discipline from their supervisors?

Any Catholic who dissents from Church teaching on morals can be disciplined by excommunication.

Do you know of any cases where retired clergy were excommunicated or otherwise disciplined for something after retirement?
(03-30-2012, 12:18 AM)Mithrandylan Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-29-2012, 07:45 PM)SaintRafael Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-29-2012, 07:40 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote: [ -> ]He's retired.  It says that in the first sentence.  Are retired clergy still subject to discipline from their supervisors?

Any Catholic who dissents from Church teaching on morals can be disciplined by excommunication.

Do you know of any cases where retired clergy were excommunicated or otherwise disciplined for something after retirement?

Good question. He may be retired, but he was the head of a major see, and his comments are public on the internet. If the Vatican can make such a big deal of essentially an auxiliary bishop who made the comments while "excommunicated" and who was "never Catholic in the proper sense" (Bishop Williamson), I don't know.
Prophecy coming true .... “The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see cardinals opposing cardinals, bishops against other bishops.” - Our Lady of Akita, October 13, 1973
For this Olive to be Glorified a Martini needs to be shaken not stirred.
(03-30-2012, 12:18 AM)Mithrandylan Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-29-2012, 07:45 PM)SaintRafael Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-29-2012, 07:40 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote: [ -> ]He's retired.  It says that in the first sentence.  Are retired clergy still subject to discipline from their supervisors?

Any Catholic who dissents from Church teaching on morals can be disciplined by excommunication.

Do you know of any cases where retired clergy were excommunicated or otherwise disciplined for something after retirement?

How about Marcel Lefebvre of blessed memory?
  LOL touché

It's true.  Arch. Lefebvre was exactly that.
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