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Has anyone noticed that Protestantism itself could not have grown as much as it did without help from monarchies and the bourgeoise?

Just as Henry VIII helped spread Protestantism to England so that he could be the leader of his church and the German princes helped Martin Luther out for some long-term profit to themselves, John Calvin's own Protestant work ethic seems to support some aspect of a business existence. Do you think that Protestantism itself could have spread as quickly as it did without the help of merchants, princes, kings, and the bourgeoise?
It never could have happened without those you mentioned ,early forerunners of Masonry, who were out to pillage the lands, and properties of the church, but fallen human nature cooperated with those with homosexual/lesbian inclination's (yes they did exist back then too) and other sexual deviants and power hungry men out to get what they could.
I thought Contantine, Theodosius and Charlemagne, just to name a few, helped Catholicism as well.
(04-07-2012, 06:14 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: [ -> ]I thought Contantine, Theodosius and Charlemagne, just to name a few, helped Catholicism as well.

I think the OP's point might have been that the "powers that be" helped out a lot earlier in the Protestant movement than Constantine did with the Church.
(04-07-2012, 06:49 PM)Pilgrim Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-07-2012, 06:14 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: [ -> ]I thought Contantine, Theodosius and Charlemagne, just to name a few, helped Catholicism as well.

I think the OP's point might have been that the "powers that be" helped out a lot earlier in the Protestant movement than Constantine did with the Church.

This.  The Church was like an irresistable flood by the time Constanine legalized it.  Despite all the efforts of the world's greatest empire, those pesky Christians with their rediculous crucified god-man just didn't give up.
(04-07-2012, 07:06 PM)drummerboy Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-07-2012, 06:49 PM)Pilgrim Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-07-2012, 06:14 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: [ -> ]I thought Contantine, Theodosius and Charlemagne, just to name a few, helped Catholicism as well.

I think the OP's point might have been that the "powers that be" helped out a lot earlier in the Protestant movement than Constantine did with the Church.

This.  The Church was like an irresistable flood by the time Constanine legalized it.  Despite all the efforts of the world's greatest empire, those pesky Christians with their rediculous crucified god-man just didn't give up.

That's true in many respects.

But then again, political power also persecuted Protestants fiercely in many other places such as France, Southern Europe, etc. And even in England, Holland and Germany they were persecuted before those countries were won to their side.

Simply suggesting political and economical reasons for the growth and survival of Protestantism is a bit silly.
(04-07-2012, 07:47 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: [ -> ]Simply suggesting political and economical reasons for the growth and survival of Protestantism is a bit silly.

No not simply, just that it helped it out. Being a former Protestant I also know the power of belief is as strong as it is in many Catholic circles, and in some fundamental churches even more.
(04-07-2012, 07:48 PM)Traditional Guy Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-07-2012, 07:47 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: [ -> ]Simply suggesting political and economical reasons for the growth and survival of Protestantism is a bit silly.

No not simply, just that it helped it out. Being a former Protestant I also know the power of belief is as strong as it is in many Catholic circles, and in some fundamental churches perhaps more.

Of course it helped it out, as it helped Catholicism and Orthodoxy out in other countries.

People are as they are. It's the same everywhere.
(04-07-2012, 07:48 PM)Traditional Guy Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-07-2012, 07:47 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: [ -> ]Simply suggesting political and economical reasons for the growth and survival of Protestantism is a bit silly.

No not simply, just that it helped it out. Being a former Protestant I also know the power of belief is as strong as it is in many Catholic circles, and in some fundamental churches even more.

I'd like to hear your conversion story. Post or pm me.
(04-07-2012, 09:46 PM)Crusader_Philly Wrote: [ -> ]I'd like to hear your conversion story. Post or pm me.
Done.