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(05-27-2012, 07:00 PM)JayneK Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-27-2012, 06:57 PM)newyorkcatholic Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-27-2012, 06:56 PM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-27-2012, 06:51 PM)spunky76 Wrote: [ -> ]Here's another question: If someone usually attends a TLM where the Eucharist is only offered under the appearance of bread, and they are well enough to attend the Mass, but for health reasons, are not able to eat solid food, what is one supposed to do? Should one just make a Spiritual Communion and just stay seated in their pew?

I'd say that if you're a regular attendee, you should make a special arrangement to receive Communion in the form of wine, either by waiting until the very end of Communion, or arranging to receive it after Mass is over. Live by the spirit of the law, not the letter.

In general you can make spiritual Communions but everyone should be able to receive Communion regularly (not necessarily every day or week but still).  So I agree ... the priest can, by special arrangement, consecrate a second chalice, and give it to you first or last.

I know someone who has celiac disease and the priests do this for her.

If the Host is really and truly the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ, how can it harm someone with Celiac Disease? It is no longer bread once the words of Consecration are spoken. I have been wondering about this too. Forgive me. I'm not trying to be a pain.
(05-27-2012, 09:23 PM)spunky76 Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-27-2012, 07:00 PM)JayneK Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-27-2012, 06:57 PM)newyorkcatholic Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-27-2012, 06:56 PM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-27-2012, 06:51 PM)spunky76 Wrote: [ -> ]Here's another question: If someone usually attends a TLM where the Eucharist is only offered under the appearance of bread, and they are well enough to attend the Mass, but for health reasons, are not able to eat solid food, what is one supposed to do? Should one just make a Spiritual Communion and just stay seated in their pew?

I'd say that if you're a regular attendee, you should make a special arrangement to receive Communion in the form of wine, either by waiting until the very end of Communion, or arranging to receive it after Mass is over. Live by the spirit of the law, not the letter.

In general you can make spiritual Communions but everyone should be able to receive Communion regularly (not necessarily every day or week but still).  So I agree ... the priest can, by special arrangement, consecrate a second chalice, and give it to you first or last.

I know someone who has celiac disease and the priests do this for her.

If the Host is really and truly the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ, how can it harm someone with Celiac Disease? It is no longer bread once the words of Consecration are spoken. I have been wondering about this too. Forgive me. I'm not trying to be a pain.


Christ is hidden under neath this appearance. 

St. Thomas wrote "I adore Thee humbly, O Thou hidden God,
Who beneath these figures truly dost abide.
All my light is darkness contemplating Thee.
Lo! my heart lies prostrate to Love's mystery."

For all sacrements (I believe) Christ uses ordinary materials (bread, wine, oils, water ,etc) to make a confect a Sacrement.

Thats why you only see and taste and touch a wafer but that is far from the reality

"Seeing, touching, tasting, fail in proving Thee;
But Thy word suffices given sacredly.
Know we nothing truer ever can be heard,
Than the words of Jesus Who is Truth's own Word."
(05-27-2012, 09:23 PM)spunky76 Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-27-2012, 07:00 PM)JayneK Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-27-2012, 06:57 PM)newyorkcatholic Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-27-2012, 06:56 PM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-27-2012, 06:51 PM)spunky76 Wrote: [ -> ]Here's another question: If someone usually attends a TLM where the Eucharist is only offered under the appearance of bread, and they are well enough to attend the Mass, but for health reasons, are not able to eat solid food, what is one supposed to do? Should one just make a Spiritual Communion and just stay seated in their pew?

I'd say that if you're a regular attendee, you should make a special arrangement to receive Communion in the form of wine, either by waiting until the very end of Communion, or arranging to receive it after Mass is over. Live by the spirit of the law, not the letter.

In general you can make spiritual Communions but everyone should be able to receive Communion regularly (not necessarily every day or week but still).  So I agree ... the priest can, by special arrangement, consecrate a second chalice, and give it to you first or last.

I know someone who has celiac disease and the priests do this for her.

If the Host is really and truly the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ, how can it harm someone with Celiac Disease? It is no longer bread once the words of Consecration are spoken. I have been wondering about this too. Forgive me. I'm not trying to be a pain.

Do keep in mind as well, the Host is the Body, not the Blood. The Wine is the Blood, not the Body. That the Host is the Body and Blood is a heresy condemned by the Council of Trent.
Quote:CANON II. If any one says that, in the sacred and holy sacrament of the Eucharist, the substance of the bread and wine remains conjointly with the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, and denies that wonderful and singular conversion of the whole substance of the bread into the Body, and of the whole substance of the wine into the Blood — the species only of the bread and wine remaining — which conversion indeed the Catholic Church most aptly calls transubstantiation; let him be anathema.” (Council of Trent, 13th Session)
Quote:“1376 ‘a change of the whole substance of the bread into the substance of the body of Christ our Lord and of the whole substance of the wine into the substance of his blood. This change the holy Catholic Church has fittingly and properly called transubstantiation.’ ”

(there's another one that I'm looking for specifically, but these will do until I find it)
ETA: I can't find it. Darnit. I just read it today too. I'll post it here when I run across it again.
(05-27-2012, 10:30 PM)knittycat Wrote: [ -> ]Do keep in mind as well, the Host is the Body, not the Blood. The Wine is the Blood, not the Body. That the Host is the Body and Blood is a heresy condemned by the Council of Trent.
Quote:CANON II. If any one says that, in the sacred and holy sacrament of the Eucharist, the substance of the bread and wine remains conjointly with the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, and denies that wonderful and singular conversion of the whole substance of the bread into the Body, and of the whole substance of the wine into the Blood — the species only of the bread and wine remaining — which conversion indeed the Catholic Church most aptly calls transubstantiation; let him be anathema.” (Council of Trent, 13th Session)
Quote:“1376 ‘a change of the whole substance of the bread into the substance of the body of Christ our Lord and of the whole substance of the wine into the substance of his blood. This change the holy Catholic Church has fittingly and properly called transubstantiation.’ ”

I think you are misunderstanding what this means, KnittyCat.  Look at what Canon iii says, immediately following the passage you cite:
Quote:CANON III.-If any one denieth, that, in the venerable sacrament of the Eucharist, the whole Christ is contained under each species, and under every part of each species, when separated; let him be anathema.

Stated positively, the whole of Christ, i.e. the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity, is contained under each species when separated. So the Host is both Body and Blood and the heresy is to deny this.
It is possible JayneK, but I did get the information I quoted, and the idea behind it from a blog you linked to, so I trusted it. http://ronconte.wordpress.com/   This guy.  I was reading his posts on Jimmy Akin
http://ronconte.wordpress.com/2011/04/23...antiation/
http://ronconte.wordpress.com/2011/05/11...antiation/
http://ronconte.wordpress.com/2012/02/10...antiation/
Admittedly, this was on a parallel subject, the annihilation of the Host and Wine rather than the transubstantiation, but the concept of Host/Body Wine/Blood came up a couple of times.  I could have misunderstood it though.  He has a very...thick...writing style. (and actually the more I've read of him, the more he just seems like an all around ass.  It's one thing to criticize a person, it's another to repeatedly insult them, which he does I've found)
(05-27-2012, 10:47 PM)JayneK Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-27-2012, 10:30 PM)knittycat Wrote: [ -> ]Do keep in mind as well, the Host is the Body, not the Blood. The Wine is the Blood, not the Body. That the Host is the Body and Blood is a heresy condemned by the Council of Trent.
Quote:CANON II. If any one says that, in the sacred and holy sacrament of the Eucharist, the substance of the bread and wine remains conjointly with the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, and denies that wonderful and singular conversion of the whole substance of the bread into the Body, and of the whole substance of the wine into the Blood — the species only of the bread and wine remaining — which conversion indeed the Catholic Church most aptly calls transubstantiation; let him be anathema.” (Council of Trent, 13th Session)
Quote:“1376 ‘a change of the whole substance of the bread into the substance of the body of Christ our Lord and of the whole substance of the wine into the substance of his blood. This change the holy Catholic Church has fittingly and properly called transubstantiation.’ ”

I think you are misunderstanding what this means, KnittyCat.  Look at what Canon iii says, immediately following the passage you cite:
Quote:CANON III.-If any one denieth, that, in the venerable sacrament of the Eucharist, the whole Christ is contained under each species, and under every part of each species, when separated; let him be anathema.

Stated positively, the whole of Christ, i.e. the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity, is contained under each species when separated. So the Host is both Body and Blood and the heresy is to deny this.

I think my question is being misunderstood as me denying the True Presence of Christ in the Blessed Sacrament. I feel as though everyone is trying to convince me. I do VERY much believe in Christ is really and truly present in the Blessed Sacrament. I just wanted to know why anyone would think that the Host would harm them if they had Celiac Disease, being that it is Christ and not just bread. I suppose I should have worded my question differently in the first place. Sorry.
(05-27-2012, 11:08 PM)spunky76 Wrote: [ -> ]I think my question is being misunderstood as me denying the True Presence of Christ in the Blessed Sacrament. I feel as though everyone is trying to convince me. I do VERY much believe in Christ is really and truly present in the Blessed Sacrament. I just wanted to know why anyone would think that the Host would harm them if they had Celiac Disease, being that it is Christ and not just bread. I suppose I should have worded my question differently in the first place. Sorry.

I'd say the simplest answer is that there are plenty of recorded instances of it actually happening, so it should be avoided if you know you've got the condition.
(05-27-2012, 11:10 PM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-27-2012, 11:08 PM)spunky76 Wrote: [ -> ]I think my question is being misunderstood as me denying the True Presence of Christ in the Blessed Sacrament. I feel as though everyone is trying to convince me. I do VERY much believe in Christ is really and truly present in the Blessed Sacrament. I just wanted to know why anyone would think that the Host would harm them if they had Celiac Disease, being that it is Christ and not just bread. I suppose I should have worded my question differently in the first place. Sorry.

I'd say the simplest answer is that there are plenty of recorded instances of it actually happening, so it should be avoided if you know you've got the condition.

And also because bread doesn't really disappear, or rather, its physical components or accidents don't vanish, otherwise it wouldn't really affect people with celiac disease.

The same with the consecrated wine. If the priest drinks too much of it, he will get drunk.
(05-27-2012, 11:08 PM)spunky76 Wrote: [ -> ]I think my question is being misunderstood as me denying the True Presence of Christ in the Blessed Sacrament. I feel as though everyone is trying to convince me. I do VERY much believe in Christ is really and truly present in the Blessed Sacrament. I just wanted to know why anyone would think that the Host would harm them if they had Celiac Disease, being that it is Christ and not just bread. I suppose I should have worded my question differently in the first place. Sorry.

Though the consecrated host is no longer bread at the level of substance, it still retains all the accidental properties of bread and is digested by the body in the same way as bread.  Thus the accidental properties of gluten are still present, and a sufferer of celiac disease would be sensitive to these.
(05-27-2012, 11:10 PM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-27-2012, 11:08 PM)spunky76 Wrote: [ -> ]I think my question is being misunderstood as me denying the True Presence of Christ in the Blessed Sacrament. I feel as though everyone is trying to convince me. I do VERY much believe in Christ is really and truly present in the Blessed Sacrament. I just wanted to know why anyone would think that the Host would harm them if they had Celiac Disease, being that it is Christ and not just bread. I suppose I should have worded my question differently in the first place. Sorry.

I'd say the simplest answer is that there are plenty of recorded instances of it actually happening, so it should be avoided if you know you've got the condition.

I guess I'm just worried that someone who does not believe in the True Presence would use that against Catholics and say "See, it is just bread!" I'm not sure how I would need to respond to something like that if it ever came up.
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