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I posted this over at cathinfo today.  Thought I would post it here, too.  I may be entering a strange unforseen period in my faith that I did not anticipate when I converted to the Church  a decade ago.  I'm always open to insight.  So...

- - - -

I hardly ever participate in discussions about SSPX and the like, but I feel compelled for some reason to now.


1. I generally attend the Novus Ordo Mass, one run by a priest who has folks kneel during the Eucharist and it is celebrated ad orientum. 

2. When I can, I try to attend FSSP Mass on Fridays. 

3. I do not attend SSPX Mass, because I am unsure if it is in communion with Rome. 

4. I do not believe in becoming a sede because that would be leaving the Church that Christ began.

Now, everyone is arguing for the primacy of their type of worship here in the Catholic world.  N.O., FSSP folk, SSPX, sedes...and this is what you call division.  Everything is so damned divided. 

When I converted to the Faith a little over ten years ago, I left the Protestant world.  I used to be a Baptist.  When I left that nebula of confusion, I left being disgusted with the divided community, the theological confusion, the self righteousness of some, and the cliquishness of others. 

Here, in Catholic Land, I have found all of it again.  Yet, I cannot abandon the Faith, because it IS the Faith.  So, it's not like Protestantism, where I can just leave and do my own thing (which was not wholesome; being a loner Christian is unadvisable). 

But to top it all off, not only is there this division in the Catholic world I find myself in, but Catholics generally (all kinds) are difficult to get along with here in the middle of America.  It has taken a lot of effort on my part to reach out to people who'd prefer to stay in their own comfort zones--and what I've established with the few I've encountered has been difficult. 


My point? 

Something is wrong, here.  Obviously, VII is a screw up.  But at this point, I refuse to believe that the Pope is not the vicar of Christ.  If he is not, then the whole priesthood is compromised, and there's no way to tell who is a "real" priest, and who is not.  Something is wrong.  There may be bad priests and bishops, and they may go to Hell, but even in Hell, these men are still priests, and they are still given their authority from God. 

The interior struggles in the Church like this make me want to quit--and they have certainly made it easy for me to miss Mass.  Because, if the Mass I am attending is possibly invalid, then why go?  But maybe it's valid?  Lol.  Authority is destroyed on Earth, 2012.
Remain orthodox and never forget Christ's promise. The gates of hell will not prevail.

I could have written your OP myself friend. Whatever you choose, be it an independent chapel or somewhere in communion with Rome, try to keep in mind that God surely understands the wreckage we must sift through.

Practice the Faith and stay in a state of grace. It's all we can do.

+



Pray your rosary well, assist at mass devoutly, and don't  feel uncertain about the future. Christ and Our
Lady will triumph. 
Avoid the NO and it's "mass" completely and attend only the TLM - that should help clear up your confusion - just give it time.

The pope is the pope and he is Christ's Vicar on earth - always believe that. Also believe he is a man and needs prayers because he screws up too. And the NO is proof of what happens when the pope screws up.



(05-27-2012, 09:14 PM)LaramieHirsch Wrote: [ -> ]I posted this over at cathinfo today.  Thought I would post it here, too.  I may be entering a strange unforseen period in my faith that I did not anticipate when I converted to the Church  a decade ago.  I'm always open to insight.  So...

- - - -

I hardly ever participate in discussions about SSPX and the like, but I feel compelled for some reason to now.


1. I generally attend the Novus Ordo Mass, one run by a priest who has folks kneel during the Eucharist and it is celebrated ad orientum. 

2. When I can, I try to attend FSSP Mass on Fridays. 

3. I do not attend SSPX Mass, because I am unsure if it is in communion with Rome. 

4. I do not believe in becoming a sede because that would be leaving the Church that Christ began.

Now, everyone is arguing for the primacy of their type of worship here in the Catholic world.  N.O., FSSP folk, SSPX, sedes...and this is what you call division.  Everything is so damned divided. 

When I converted to the Faith a little over ten years ago, I left the Protestant world.  I used to be a Baptist.  When I left that nebula of confusion, I left being disgusted with the divided community, the theological confusion, the self righteousness of some, and the cliquishness of others. 

Here, in Catholic Land, I have found all of it again.  Yet, I cannot abandon the Faith, because it IS the Faith.  So, it's not like Protestantism, where I can just leave and do my own thing (which was not wholesome; being a loner Christian is unadvisable). 

But to top it all off, not only is there this division in the Catholic world I find myself in, but Catholics generally (all kinds) are difficult to get along with here in the middle of America.  It has taken a lot of effort on my part to reach out to people who'd prefer to stay in their own comfort zones--and what I've established with the few I've encountered has been difficult. 


My point? 

Something is wrong, here.  Obviously, VII is a screw up.  But at this point, I refuse to believe that the Pope is not the vicar of Christ.  If he is not, then the whole priesthood is compromised, and there's no way to tell who is a "real" priest, and who is not.  Something is wrong.  There may be bad priests and bishops, and they may go to Hell, but even in Hell, these men are still priests, and they are still given their authority from God. 

The interior struggles in the Church like this make me want to quit--and they have certainly made it easy for me to miss Mass.  Because, if the Mass I am attending is possibly invalid, then why go?  But maybe it's valid?  Lol.  Authority is destroyed on Earth, 2012.

Good grief.  The Church has always had internal struggles.  Why would that make anyone "want to quit"?  Read the history of the papacy, particularly with regard to John XII and also the "Pope Formosus episode."  If the Church can survive such things, and She did, She can survive anything.
The Novus Ordo form of the Mass is completely valid. Doubt only comes about when there is doubt in the priests intention - if he is a complete liberal modernist for example, he might have a heretical view of the Mass which could ruin the intention. Remember that a valid sacrament requires correct matter (can't use grape juice or honey biscuits for example), intention and form. If an orthodox priest celebrated the Novus Ordo you can be completely sure it is valid.

The SSPX (and most traditionalists) don't oppose the Novus Ordo because of validity. They oppose it because it is novelty. It waters down the faith and the sacrificial nature of the Mass. It is a synthetic on the spot product, and was a departure from the traditional theology of the Mass.
Didn't God say the wheat and tares would grow alongside each other till the General Judgement.
Don't let anyone kidd you this is biblical in scope. The Church has entered her Passion imitating Our Lord. Barring those that are maliciously and wickedly using this to attack the Church, you are not alone in your conusion. I heard a priest say that God knew from the beginning, that He put each of us here at this time, as those that came before us would never have made it through this mess. It keeps me going, when I'm tried.

I cope by tuning out the debate about minor stuff SSPX vs. FSSP or anything which is more or less arguable. I stick to what I was taught long ago, and keep my nose clean by trying to refrain from getting involved with the politics of it all. Stick to the Faith, practice it with all your strength, keep up your prayer life, make the accomodation that you can live with in your own conscience concerning SSPX, sedevacntism, FSSP, or the NO.

Hold on this will not go on forever, God will not be mocked.

tim
If they were honest the dissenters wouldn't attack the Pope Bishops or Priests, let's be honest they believe they know better than Jesus, if they were honest they would say it before they start their tirade against Church teaching.
(05-27-2012, 10:34 PM)Tim Wrote: [ -> ]I heard a priest say that God knew from the beginning, that He put each of us here at this time, as those that came before us would never have made it through this mess. It keeps me going, when I'm tried.

Interesting and comforting thought, Tim.  Thanks.  I sort of speculated on this a few times in life.  Nifty to know others thought it, too.

(05-27-2012, 10:54 PM)salus Wrote: [ -> ]If they were honest the dissenters wouldn't attack the Pope Bishops or Priests, let's be honest they believe they know better than Jesus, if they were honest they would say it before they start their tirade against Church teaching.

Yes, sometimes it seems this way.  I feel like I've read this kind of confrontation before. 
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