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(06-25-2012, 03:03 PM)Sondaar Wrote: [ -> ]I might be thinking of the Salem Witch trial stories as well..granted..I get this type of thing mixed up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_confession

It seem to definitely been the norm though.

The Salem Witch trials were the product of heresy. The Church did not conduct witch hunts or have such superstitions. In fact, hunting for witches was condemned by the Church as superstitious! It was protestants who used some books to go after witches and the like.

Confusing protestants and other Christian based heresies with the Church can be common because the enemies of truth usually do not care for specifics or even facts.
(06-25-2012, 03:25 PM)Rosarium Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-25-2012, 03:03 PM)Sondaar Wrote: [ -> ]I might be thinking of the Salem Witch trial stories as well..granted..I get this type of thing mixed up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_confession

It seem to definitely been the norm though.

The Salem Witch trials were the product of heresy. The Church did not conduct witch hunts or have such superstitions. In fact, hunting for witches was condemned by the Church as superstitious! It was protestants who used some books to go after witches and the like.

Confusing protestants and other Christian based heresies with the Church can be common because the enemies of truth usually do not care for specifics or even facts.
I know - I read about it once as I found the topic interesting. I like reading history.
(06-25-2012, 03:14 PM)Habitual_Ritual Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-25-2012, 01:34 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: [ -> ]You can't force anyone to believe. To do so is the characteristic of tyrants and cult leaders. Liberty of conscience is a precious thing that shouldn't be taken for granted.

This one sentence is amazing.It  underscores your complete ignorance on the purpose and reality of the inquisitorial era.
Let me ask you...did the inquisition burn professed Jews and Muslims?

As V is "taking a break"  I will answer my own question.

No is the answer.The actions of the Inquisition had nothing to do with forcing belief on non believers.Rather its purpose was to root out "professed" Christians who in actuality where duplicitous Conversos, working directly or indirectly for the subversion of the Catholic state.There is zero truth in the claim that the purpose of the Inquisition was to force belief on unbelievers or members of other Faiths.This is just plain silly talk.
Some people seem to be saying that the Inquistion burned people for holding an opinion contrary to that of the Church. That is wrong. You could hold a heretical opinion. It was preaching it in the public sphere and refusing to recant that put you in front of the Inquisition.
(06-25-2012, 07:26 PM)TraditionalistThomas Wrote: [ -> ]Some people seem to be saying that the Inquistion burned people for holding an opinion contrary to that of the Church. That is wrong. You could hold a heretical opinion. It was preaching it in the public sphere and refusing to recant that put you in front of the Inquisition.

Pertinacity. Look up the case of Domenico "Menocchio" Scandella. The man spread radical ideas for years, and wouldn't cease. If he had kept quiet, he probably would have saved his life. He couldn't, and appeared before the Inquisition numerous times before being burned at the stake in the 16th century.
(06-25-2012, 04:47 AM)Sondaar Wrote: [ -> ]Here is something I found quite useful;



It was made by the BBC (which isn't catholic, so it can't be accused of bias) - It's divided into 5 parts.

Torture if I remember correctly was used by everyone, it was just a device of the day and age (like questioning or interrogation is today) -- one cannot judge something in the past against the moral values of today...though watch it, it destroys the Inquisition myth.
We, as Catholics, are moral absolutists and can never say that morals change, or we are feeding the moral relativists. Though society changes, murder is still wrong. Not because you say it is, or say it is, but because it is OBJECTIVELY wrong. Moral Relativism is the worst kind of ideaology, and needs to be combated whenever possible.
(06-25-2012, 11:05 PM)WesternWarrior Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-25-2012, 04:47 AM)Sondaar Wrote: [ -> ]Here is something I found quite useful;



It was made by the BBC (which isn't catholic, so it can't be accused of bias) - It's divided into 5 parts.

Torture if I remember correctly was used by everyone, it was just a device of the day and age (like questioning or interrogation is today) -- one cannot judge something in the past against the moral values of today...though watch it, it destroys the Inquisition myth.
We, as Catholics, are moral absolutists and can never say that morals change, or we are feeding the moral relativists. Though society changes, murder is still wrong. Not because you say it is, or say it is, but because it is OBJECTIVELY wrong. Moral Relativism is the worst kind of ideaology, and needs to be combated whenever possible.
I agree, but one can hardly judge the Spanish Inquisition the same way you judge Guantanamo Bay -- Torture was used by everyone of the time, and people probably didn't know any better (unlike the latter example).

It's the same with slavery, lobotomies, bleeding, lack of women's rights (education, voting, etc), public executions, etc -- these were historical institutions people living in the time didn't know any better, but when the time came when people did become aware it was wrong - it was fought against and stopped.

All I'm saying is to not be so hard on people in the past as they probably did not know any better.
(06-26-2012, 04:17 AM)Sondaar Wrote: [ -> ]I agree, but one can hardly judge the Spanish Inquisition the same way you judge Guantanamo Bay -- Torture was used by everyone of the time, and people probably didn't know any better (unlike the latter example).
And torture was not as common as people think. The historical reality of the Inquisitions would probably make the torture question barely relevant.

Quote:It's the same with slavery, lobotomies, bleeding, lack of women's rights (education, voting, etc), public executions, etc -- these were historical institutions people living in the time didn't know any better, but when the time came when people did become aware it was wrong - it was fought against and stopped.
Slavery is not wrong in itself either. We are all slaves. Anything which overcomes us enslaves us. In our free society, the most common slave master is the flesh itself. Instead of following a lord of any sort, people follow their own base desires.

Women's rights also, especially in voting, is not morally necessary. Voting is part of the government...it is not a "right" except to the extent the government may give it that status. There is no reason why any society which has voting should grant it to everyone or anyone at all. Public executions are not bad either. After all, we have public trials. Not every society had the luxury of a vast legal system and many holding facilities.

Be aware of attributing what one is comfortable with in a given the society the status of superiority. After all, if they did not "know better", imagine what you have yet to learn!

Quote:All I'm saying is to not be so hard on people in the past as they probably did not know any better.
Torture is a vague question. After all, the American prison system could be considered torture.
I wasn't necessarily condemning the inquisition, but the position that morals change; THEY DON"T. If that is the case then the moral relativists win.
(06-25-2012, 02:04 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-25-2012, 01:50 PM)Rosarium Wrote: [ -> ]The Inquisitions only applied to people under Church authority. You are misrepresenting it again.

Since the vast majority of people who lived in Catholic countries were Catholic to begin with, the whole country fell under the Church's authority. A man was born a Catholic

Nobody is born a Catholic unless he's baptized in utero.
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