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(06-26-2012, 11:13 PM)WesternWarrior Wrote: [ -> ]I would also say that people flock to evangelical Protestantism because it's easier. Once saved always saved is an excellent selling point

Too true it is a good get out of jail card, whilst one can secretly indulge in sinful behaviour without the need to reform. The bible says those who persevere to the end will be saved (Matt 24:13).
(06-27-2012, 01:27 AM)Jamey77 Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-26-2012, 11:13 PM)WesternWarrior Wrote: [ -> ]I would also say that people flock to evangelical Protestantism because it's easier. Once saved always saved is an excellent selling point

Too true it is a good get out of jail card, whilst one can secretly indulge in sinful behaviour without the need to reform. The bible says those who persevere to the end will be saved (Matt 24:13).

"Once saved always saved" is a vile and flaky heresy. St. Paul himself exhorts us to "work out our own salvation with fear and trembling" (Phil 2:12). Gee, I thought the Protestants were "Bible Christians."
Anamchara, their doctrine is generally that they are "saved" but they have to make good on it if they want to have a good treasure stored up.

They're confused. Why would you expect them not to be?

Protestantism is kinda like a huge group of disparate people who can't agree on 2+2=4 but are convinced they're going to achieve rocketry together. I don't know that one should expect them to get multiplication.
anamchara they are generally bible Christians but only selected passages that suit, the holistic view is rejected. Heck they don't even ask where the New Testament came from and how it was compiled - another can of worms.

Of course there are some current day Protestants seeking the truth and trying their best - I know of a renowned Aussie Rules player (a Baptist from memory) who upon initiation to his new club was asked in front of all the players how many women he had slept with, he said none, he was Christian and would wait until marriage. He was humiliated much by other players at this club which generally had a rotten drug infested culture. Unfortunately these poor people who must know they are missing something may be curious about Catholicism and may even attend a Novus Ordo but are probably repulsed and not inspired by what they see and hear.
(06-26-2012, 09:24 PM)TrentCath Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-26-2012, 08:55 PM)Tim Wrote: [ -> ]My understnding is this: if you want this to go away, shut up and stop discussing crap. Bring back  the TLM every where and end ths madness. it's that simple end the NO everywhere, period !!!

tim

:amen: :w2go: :clap: :chleader:

This for sure!

I will add that until what Tim says happens, the rest will remain just smoke and mirrors.
(06-26-2012, 09:34 PM)OldMan Wrote: [ -> ]I just don't see how "just the Latin Mass" will fix all that ails the Catholic Church. It goes much, much deeper... Vatican II and all its baggage must be dumped.

Amen!
(06-26-2012, 11:37 PM)WesternWarrior Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-26-2012, 11:27 PM)Crusading Philologist Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-26-2012, 09:34 PM)OldMan Wrote: [ -> ]I just don't see how "just the Latin Mass" will fix all that ails the Catholic Church. It goes much, much deeper... Vatican II and all its baggage must be dumped.
What on earth could possibly go deeper than the one eternal sacrifice of Christ?
:amen:

Merely having the old Mass doesn't guarantee orthodoxy.  The first Protestants had the traditional Mass; they lost the Faith.  The Mass in vogue during the Second Vatican Council was the old Mass.  Many, even among the hierarchy, still lost the Faith.  The Orthodox have the old Mass, i.e., its eastern equivalent, the Divine Liturgy, but they do not possess the Catholic Faith.

There has to be orthodoxy in all aspects of the Faith, not just having the old Mass.  History demonstrates that point. 

What needs to happen in our day is very simple, and it has to do with obedience to Heaven's command:  The pope, in union with all the bishops of the world, must consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  Until that is done, and it has not been done, Catholics will continue to flounder.
(06-27-2012, 07:35 AM)TraditionalistThomas Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-26-2012, 09:34 PM)OldMan Wrote: [ -> ]I just don't see how "just the Latin Mass" will fix all that ails the Catholic Church. It goes much, much deeper... Vatican II and all its baggage must be dumped.

Amen!

IMO, the NOM and the NO are parts of the same body as long as you have one, you're gonna have them both.
(06-26-2012, 09:34 PM)OldMan Wrote: [ -> ]I just don't see how "just the Latin Mass" will fix all that ails the Catholic Church. It goes much, much deeper... Vatican II and all its baggage must be dumped.

The Destruction of Catholic Worship is the Destruction of the Catholic Faith

"The Church has always set forth the firm and clear principle that: "The way we worship is the way we believe." The doctrinal truths of the Faith are embodied in the worship we offer to God. In other words, it is the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass that teaches us our theology and not the reverse. The True Mass comprises the Apostolic Tradition of faith and morals in its very essence. Every doctrine essential to the Faith is taught therein. Pope Leo XIII points out in Apostolicae Curae that the Church's enemies have always understood this principle as "They knew only too well the intimate bond that unites faith with worship, the law of belief with the law of prayer, and so, under the pretext of restoring the order of the liturgy to its primitive form, they corrupted it in many respects to adapt it to the errors of the Innovators." It is no wonder, then, that Luther coined the slogan: "Take away the Mass, destroy the Church.

t. Alphonsus Liguori (Bishop, Doctor of the Church and Patron of Theologians) explains that "The devil has always attempted, by means of the heretics, to deprive the world of the Mass, making them precursors of the Anti-Christ, who, before anything else, will try to abolish and will actually abolish the Holy Sacrament of the altar, as a punishment for the sins of men, according to the prediction of Daniel: ‘And strength was given him against the continual sacrifice' (Dan. 8:12)."

http://www.olrl.org/new_mass/evils.shtml
(06-27-2012, 06:58 AM)Jamey77 Wrote: [ -> ]Unfortunately these poor people who must know they are missing something may be curious about Catholicism and may even attend a Novus Ordo but are probably repulsed and not inspired by what they see and hear.

This.  The devil and his minions are always after ways to discredit the Truth so, what better way than to gut the one, true Church by tempting fellow travelers within the Church to try to destroy Her from within?
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