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You guys are falling for the Vatican II way, discuss, discuss, and nothing happens. Look back, with a tiny bit of catechesis, and the TLM low Mass we were converting people, and keeping them on the narrow path. Humility, lowliness, smallness is the key. This is what is wrong, too many think they know better.

tim
(06-27-2012, 03:21 PM)Tim Wrote: [ -> ]You guys are falling for the Vatican II way, discuss, discuss, and nothing happens. Look back, with a tiny bit of catechesis, and the TLM low Mass we were converting people, and keeping them on the narrow path. Humility, lowliness, smallness is the key. This is what is wrong, too many think they know better.

tim
You're right Tim, humility is the counter virtue to pride. We are all too full of pride to even see it sometimes. He who humbles himself will be exalted; he who exalts himself will be humbled. 
(06-26-2012, 11:27 PM)Crusading Philologist Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-26-2012, 09:34 PM)OldMan Wrote: [ -> ]I just don't see how "just the Latin Mass" will fix all that ails the Catholic Church. It goes much, much deeper... Vatican II and all its baggage must be dumped.

What on earth could possibly go deeper than the one eternal sacrifice of Christ?

The Novus Ordo makes present the one sacrifice of Christ just as the Tridentine Mass does. Of course, God may be more propitious to the Mass as the sacrifice of the priest and people present when it is offered more reverently.
(06-26-2012, 11:37 PM)WesternWarrior Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-26-2012, 11:27 PM)Crusading Philologist Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-26-2012, 09:34 PM)OldMan Wrote: [ -> ]I just don't see how "just the Latin Mass" will fix all that ails the Catholic Church. It goes much, much deeper... Vatican II and all its baggage must be dumped.

What on earth could possibly go deeper than the one eternal sacrifice of Christ?
:amen:

To begin, folks, the schismatic (and heretical Orthodox Churches have a valid Mass, but that is all. Their theology is rotten, and so is the NOs.
(06-27-2012, 05:00 PM)Resurrexi Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-26-2012, 11:27 PM)Crusading Philologist Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-26-2012, 09:34 PM)OldMan Wrote: [ -> ]I just don't see how "just the Latin Mass" will fix all that ails the Catholic Church. It goes much, much deeper... Vatican II and all its baggage must be dumped.

What on earth could possibly go deeper than the one eternal sacrifice of Christ?

The Novus Ordo makes present the one sacrifice of Christ just as the Tridentine Mass does. Of course, God may be more propitious to the Mass as the sacrifice of the priest and people present when it is offered more reverently.

Outside of FE and other internet forums, where in the world is the NO Liturgy known as, and typically referred to as a sacrifice?
My guess is that +98% of NOers, including and perhaps most especially, the NO hierarchy, never refer to the thing as a sacrifice because that's not what they believe it's about for some strange reason.

Please provide some references if you can.
(06-27-2012, 06:01 PM)Stubborn Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-27-2012, 05:00 PM)Resurrexi Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-26-2012, 11:27 PM)Crusading Philologist Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-26-2012, 09:34 PM)OldMan Wrote: [ -> ]I just don't see how "just the Latin Mass" will fix all that ails the Catholic Church. It goes much, much deeper... Vatican II and all its baggage must be dumped.

What on earth could possibly go deeper than the one eternal sacrifice of Christ?

The Novus Ordo makes present the one sacrifice of Christ just as the Tridentine Mass does. Of course, God may be more propitious to the Mass as the sacrifice of the priest and people present when it is offered more reverently.

Outside of FE and other internet forums, where in the world is the NO Liturgy known as, and typically referred to as a sacrifice?

It refers to itself that way:

With humble spirit and contrite heart
may we be accepted by you, O Lord,
and may our sacrifice in your sight this day
be pleasing to you, Lord God.

Pray, brethren (brothers and sisters),
that my sacrifice and yours
may be acceptable to God,
the almighty Father.

May the Lord accept the sacrifice at your hands
for the praise and glory of his name,
for our good
and the good of all his holy Church.

To you, therefore, most merciful Father,
we make humble prayer and petition
through Jesus Christ, your Son, our Lord:
that you accept
and bless these gifts, these offerings,
these holy and unblemished sacrifices,
which we offer you firstly
for your holy catholic Church.

Be pleased, O God, we pray,
to bless, acknowledge,
and approve this offering in every respect;
make it spiritual and acceptable . . .
Remember, Lord, your servants N. and N.
and all gathered here,
whose faith and devotion are known to you.
For them, we offer you this sacrifice of praise
or they offer it for themselves
and all who are dear to them

Be pleased, O God, we pray,
to bless, acknowledge,
and approve this offering in every respect;
make it spiritual and acceptable,
so that it may become for us
the Body and Blood of your most beloved Son,
our Lord Jesus Christ.

Therefore, O Lord,
as we celebrate the memorial of the blessed Passion,
the Resurrection from the dead,
and the glorious Ascension into heaven
of Christ, your Son, our Lord,
we, your servants and your holy people,
offer to your glorious majesty
from the gifts that you have given us,
this pure victim,
this holy victim,
this spotless victim,
the holy Bread of eternal life
and the Chalice of everlasting salvation.

Be pleased to look upon these offerings
with a serene and kindly countenance,
and to accept them,
as once you were pleased to accept
the gifts of your servant Abel the just,
the sacrifice of Abraham, our father in faith,
and the offering of your high priest Melchizedek,
a holy sacrifice, a spotless victim.

I could continue, but I'd rather read a couple of articles from the Summa.
(06-27-2012, 06:21 PM)Resurrexi Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-27-2012, 06:01 PM)Stubborn Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-27-2012, 05:00 PM)Resurrexi Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-26-2012, 11:27 PM)Crusading Philologist Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-26-2012, 09:34 PM)OldMan Wrote: [ -> ]I just don't see how "just the Latin Mass" will fix all that ails the Catholic Church. It goes much, much deeper... Vatican II and all its baggage must be dumped.

What on earth could possibly go deeper than the one eternal sacrifice of Christ?

The Novus Ordo makes present the one sacrifice of Christ just as the Tridentine Mass does. Of course, God may be more propitious to the Mass as the sacrifice of the priest and people present when it is offered more reverently.

Outside of FE and other internet forums, where in the world is the NO Liturgy known as, and typically referred to as a sacrifice?

It refers to itself that way:

It's the only one outside of FE that refers to itself that way.
I've heard the Roman Canon at ONE Novus Ordo parish in my 24 years of being Catholic.

For what it's worth.
Other than at a few NO's at St. John Cantius, I have heard EP I (which is a dumbed-down version of the real Roman Canon, let us recall!) all of three times, and one was at our Nuptial Mass when we specifically insisted upon it.
(06-27-2012, 07:23 PM)CollegeCatholic Wrote: [ -> ]I've heard the Roman Canon at ONE Novus Ordo parish in my 24 years of being Catholic.

For what it's worth.

In South America the Roman Canon is still used for Solemnities, and sometimes even the Nicene Creed.

Some Priests still speak of Sacrifice when referring to the Mass, but most times they prefer the term "meal" or similar ones. That specially happens at the Neo Cathecumenal Way (along with their own distorted teaching and Liturgy).
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