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Full Version: Traditionalist SSPX calls Vatican offer ‘clearly unacceptable’ 06/26/2012
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Well, this part doesn't look so great:

Quote:The Vatican refused to comment on Thouvenot’s letter. Even so, Benedict signaled the importance he devotes to reconciliation with the SSPX by appointing American Archbishop Augustine Di Noia to the newly created position of vice president of the Pontifical Commission “Ecclesia Dei,” which is tasked with overseeing relations with traditionalist groups.

Di Noia, a native New Yorker, will work directly with Levada, and has worked with Benedict before and after his 2005 election, most recently as the No. 2 official in the Vatican’s liturgy office.

A statement by the Vatican doctrinal office stresses that the “broad respect” that Di Noia enjoys in the Jewish community should help alleviate Jewish fears that the SSPX would not have to accept the Vatican II document that rejected anti-Semitism as part of a reunion with Rome.

...but otherwise, nothing that wasn't already known.

I think we're back to "wait and see" until after the SSPX General Chapter meeting early next month.
"In his letter, Thouvenot writes that Fellay proposed his own version of the Preamble last April which, “according to several agreeing sources,” seemed to “satisfy the Supreme Pontiff.” But he added that cardinals in Levada’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith “amended” the text and it “now reintroduces, substantially, the propositions of September 2011.” "

If the above is true B16 is going to have to flex some muscle if he wants the SSPX in the fold. A quiet peaceful retirement in Bavaria writing books is not what Divine Providence had in mind for the Pontiff.
(06-27-2012, 05:13 AM)tmw89 Wrote: [ -> ]Well, this part doesn't look so great:

Quote:The Vatican refused to comment on Thouvenot’s letter. Even so, Benedict signaled the importance he devotes to reconciliation with the SSPX by appointing American Archbishop Augustine Di Noia to the newly created position of vice president of the Pontifical Commission “Ecclesia Dei,” which is tasked with overseeing relations with traditionalist groups.

Di Noia, a native New Yorker, will work directly with Levada, and has worked with Benedict before and after his 2005 election, most recently as the No. 2 official in the Vatican’s liturgy office.

A statement by the Vatican doctrinal office stresses that the “broad respect” that Di Noia enjoys in the Jewish community should help alleviate Jewish fears that the SSPX would not have to accept the Vatican II document that rejected anti-Semitism as part of a reunion with Rome.

The problem is that there  are articles all over the net all saying something different. I found this article:this  morning:  Huh?

A canonical solution before a doctrinal solution?
DICI: Most of those who are opposed to the Society’s acceptance of a possible canonical recognition allege that the doctrinal discussions could have led to this acceptance only if they had concluded with a doctrinal solution, in other words, a “conversion” by Rome.  Has your position on this point changed?
Bishop Fellay: It must be acknowledged that these discussions have allowed us to present clearly the various problems that we experience with regard to Vatican II.  What has changed is the fact that Rome no longer makes total acceptance of Vatican II a prerequisite for the canonical solution.  Today, in Rome, some people regard a different understanding of the Council as something that is not decisive for the future of the Church, since the Church is more than the Council.  Indeed, the Church cannot be reduced to the Council;  she is much larger.  Therefore we must strive to resolve more far-reaching problems.  This new awareness can help us to understanding what is really happening:  we are called to help bring to others the treasure of Tradition that we have been able to preserve.
So the attitude of the official Church is what changed;  we did not.  We were not the ones who asked for an agreement;  the pope is the one who wants to recognize us.  You may ask:  why this change?  We are still not in agreement doctrinally, and yet the pope wants to recognize us!  Why?  The answer is right in front of us:  there are terribly important problems in the Church today.  These problems must be addressed.  We must set aside the secondary problems and deal with the major problems.  This is the answer of one or another Roman prelate, although they will never say so openly;  you have to read between the lines to understand.
[b]The official authorities do not want to acknowledge the errors of the Council.  They will never say so explicitly.  Nevertheless, if you read between the lines, you can see that they hope to remedy some of these errors.  Here is an interesting example on the subject of the priesthood.  You know that starting with the Council there was a new concept of the priesthood and that it demolished the role of the priest.  Today we see very clearly that the Roman authorities are trying to rehabilitate the true concept of the priest.  We observed this already during the Year of the Priest that took place in 2010-2011.  Now, the Feast of the Sacred Heart is becoming the day consecrated to the sanctification of priests.  For this occasion, a letter was published and an examination of conscience for priests was composed.  One might think that they went to Ecône to find this examination of conscience, it is so much along the lines of pre-conciliar spirituality.  This examination presents the traditional image of the priest, and also of his role in the Church.  This role is what Archbishop Lefebvre affirms when he describes the Society’s mission:  to restore the Church by restoring the priest.".

It sounds bad when they say, "The official authorities do not want to acknowledge the errors of the Council", however, I think it's possible that the whole USSCB  would walk if we did.  There are just a few bishops left that are faithful to the Pope.
(06-27-2012, 04:43 AM)bkovacs Wrote: [ -> ]http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/o...story.html
http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/hom...nos-16311/
Doesn't look good!.

Actually it does.This is for the best.You can't deal with the Devil.
(06-27-2012, 05:13 AM)tmw89 Wrote: [ -> ]Di Noia enjoys in the Jewish community should help alleviate Jewish fears that the SSPX would not have to accept the Vatican II document that rejected anti-Semitism as part of a reunion with Rome.


[/quote]

Ah yes before the Vatican reconciles with real Catholics it has to appease it's Talmudist masters. Lookin good. Why is + Fellay even bothering with these clowns?
(06-27-2012, 08:03 AM)Habitual_Ritual Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-27-2012, 04:43 AM)bkovacs Wrote: [ -> ]http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/o...story.html
http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/hom...nos-16311/
Doesn't look good!.

Actually it does.This is for the best.You can't deal with the Devil.

yep
(06-27-2012, 08:21 AM)The Dying Flutchman Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-27-2012, 05:13 AM)tmw89 Wrote: [ -> ]Di Noia enjoys in the Jewish community should help alleviate Jewish fears that the SSPX would not have to accept the Vatican II document that rejected anti-Semitism as part of a reunion with Rome.

Ah yes before the Vatican reconciles with real Catholics it has to appease it's Talmudist masters. Lookin good. Why is + Fellay even bothering with these clowns?
[/quote]

Was thinking the exact same thing.
(06-27-2012, 09:58 AM)TraditionalistThomas Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-27-2012, 08:21 AM)The Dying Flutchman Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-27-2012, 05:13 AM)tmw89 Wrote: [ -> ]
Quote:Di Noia enjoys in the Jewish community should help alleviate Jewish fears that the SSPX would not have to accept the Vatican II document that rejected anti-Semitism as part of a reunion with Rome.

Ah yes before the Vatican reconciles with real Catholics it has to appease it's Talmudist masters. Lookin good. Why is + Fellay even bothering with these clowns?

Was thinking the exact same thing.

I've seen mention in a few threads around here that +Fellay happens to have a Jewish or Zionist lawyer.  Anybody have more info on that?
(06-27-2012, 08:21 AM)The Dying Flutchman Wrote: [ -> ]Ah yes before the Vatican reconciles with real Catholics it has to appease it's Talmudist masters. Lookin good. Why is + Fellay even bothering with these clowns?

Battle ye not with clowns lest ye become a clown.  In 2009 Bp. Fellay betrayed his weak spot by throwing Bp. Williamson under the bus.  Had he stuck to his original position regarding Williamson and treated the questions with the proper disdain, he would have been rock solid.  But instead he demonstrated that he was capable of being influenced.  Once he did that, he became putty in the hands of the media and the media saavy Curia.  
Divide and Conquer was under way.

Williamson was problematic for the press because it became apparent to them right away that he had charisma. They quickly stopped actually showing the video of him and instead quoted him and would show distorted photographs.  

Any direct attention, interviews and first person material would have been too much to gamble on the public.  He would have peeled away support with his common sense and the fact that the Truth of Catholicism is ultimately attractive.  

So, Bp. Fellay was given positive press to contrast him with Williamson and became the tool of the media and the Curia in dealing with Williamson.  He silenced him (or tried to) and Pope Benedict lied about him in his books and made himself look spineless. With Williamson sufficiently curbed, they then went about assimilating the SSPX.  They did not count on the loyalty of so many priests and faithful and the common sense ability not to be snookered by authority.  And when it was discovered that it was 3 bishops and not just Williamsons opposing any deal, well..the bottom dropped out of the original plan.  

Anything since is a simply a cleanup in order to save face, blamed the "extremeists" of the SSPX and wait a sufficient amount of time in order to go after them again.

In the end, Rome never did a single action in good faith.  All pro-traditional Catholics actions had strings attached or poison pills or were done dishonestly.  

If the General Chapter can persuade Bp. Fellay to resign and take his cohorts with him, the SSPX can get back to business and build on what was learned this go 'round.  


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