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Full Version: Gerhard Müller is indeed a heretic, and blasphemer
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(07-14-2012, 06:14 PM)GottmitunsAlex Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-14-2012, 06:11 PM)JayneK Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-14-2012, 05:24 PM)GottmitunsAlex Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-14-2012, 05:13 PM)Jesusbrea Wrote: [ -> ]It is not a claim, it is a fact. One word to describe your attitude is DENIAL. Of the many cardinals* that Benedict could had chosen for the role, even when non-traditional in the full sense of the word (Burke, Ranjith, even Cardinal Cañizares) he picks precisely THIS. Hell, Levada was a staunch thomist traditionalist in comparison.

*I might add, why not make Bishop Schneider a Cardinal and appoint him for the role?
Cause Schneider is an antiquated theologian.
He does not speak in ambiguous terms.
He offers the TLM.
And there would be no window of opportunity to make him suspect of heresy. Hence, the modernists would not defend him like they do Muller et al.

Do you have any evidence to support any of these claims?  They seem to come from your imagination.

BTW, Here is the "evidence" http://www.churchmilitant.tv/documents/v...-01-20.pdf
(07-14-2012, 06:22 PM)jonbhorton Wrote: [ -> ]All combined, the SSPX in total probably doesn't even meet the same numbers as just the Diocese of Frieburg, which serves around 2 million. Germany has over 25million+ Catholics.

The SSPX is a drop in the bucket. Would be bad for them to go into formal schism, but Germany is about to swirl like a turd down the sewer pipe.

Bishop Muller's appointment seems more likely to address Germany than the SSPX.

The baby with a bottle in his mouth may scream, but the hungry infant is the one which gets attention.

This may well be true, considering the amount of disidents that are active in the Priesthood in Germany. But it certainly has a precedent to follow; Martin Luther ring a bell?
Really, i cannot see a justification for making a marginally orthodox Bishop the head of CDF just to placate the dissenters in the germanic region. If they choose to leave, so be it. But the possible damage to the entire Church is much more important than some whinning heretics.

What is Muller's appointment supposed to do in Germany anyway?  Why is his appointment going to "deal" with the de facto schismatics and heretics in Germany? Are they going to listen to him and everyone is suddenly going to be orthodox Catholics? 

This Pope has an utterly bizarre concept of "unity."  It's like he eventually wants a one world religion that will have neither dogmas, nor heirarchy....etc.  Hey, where have I heard that before?
(07-14-2012, 07:32 PM)Dmorgan Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-14-2012, 06:22 PM)jonbhorton Wrote: [ -> ]All combined, the SSPX in total probably doesn't even meet the same numbers as just the Diocese of Frieburg, which serves around 2 million. Germany has over 25million+ Catholics.

The SSPX is a drop in the bucket. Would be bad for them to go into formal schism, but Germany is about to swirl like a turd down the sewer pipe.

Bishop Muller's appointment seems more likely to address Germany than the SSPX.

The baby with a bottle in his mouth may scream, but the hungry infant is the one which gets attention.

This may well be true, considering the amount of disidents that are active in the Priesthood in Germany. But it certainly has a precedent to follow; Martin Luther ring a bell?
Really, i cannot see a justification for making a marginally orthodox Bishop the head of CDF just to placate the dissenters in the germanic region. If they choose to leave, so be it. But the possible damage to the entire Church is much more important than some whinning heretics.

Placate? More like get them in line without them being able to hide internal workings, who does or is what, etc.
(07-14-2012, 07:42 PM)Gerard Wrote: [ -> ]What is Muller's appointment supposed to do in Germany anyway?  Why is his appointment going to "deal" with the de facto schismatics and heretics in Germany? Are they going to listen to him and everyone is suddenly going to be orthodox Catholics? 

This Pope has an utterly bizarre concept of "unity."  It's like he eventually wants a one world religion that will have neither dogmas, nor heirarchy....etc.  Hey, where have I heard that before?

One diocese in Germany has more than the SSPX worldwide, including laity served. What effort stands to lose the most souls if gone off the deep end (from Rome's perspective), Germany or the SSPX?

Not SSPX.
(07-14-2012, 07:52 PM)jonbhorton Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-14-2012, 07:42 PM)Gerard Wrote: [ -> ]What is Muller's appointment supposed to do in Germany anyway?  Why is his appointment going to "deal" with the de facto schismatics and heretics in Germany? Are they going to listen to him and everyone is suddenly going to be orthodox Catholics? 

This Pope has an utterly bizarre concept of "unity."  It's like he eventually wants a one world religion that will have neither dogmas, nor heirarchy....etc.  Hey, where have I heard that before?

One diocese in Germany has more than the SSPX worldwide, including laity served. What effort stands to lose the most souls if gone off the deep end (from Rome's perspective), Germany or the SSPX?

Not SSPX.

Don't suppose you have stats on the # of persons in Germany who are Catholic in more than a CINO way?
(07-14-2012, 07:52 PM)jonbhorton Wrote: [ -> ]One diocese in Germany has more than the SSPX worldwide, including laity served. What effort stands to lose the most souls if gone off the deep end (from Rome's perspective), Germany or the SSPX?

Not SSPX.

My point is that Germany has already gone off the deep end and it wouldn't be unreasonable to say that their heterodoxy is already hemoragging souls into Hell.  Why blurr the line and enable the apostates to fool themselves into thinking they are Catholics in good standing with their pro-abortion beliefs?  Let them know that they left the Church because they believe in abortion, gay pairings and every other sin. That would be the charitable thing to do.  
(07-14-2012, 07:01 PM)GottmitunsAlex Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-14-2012, 06:14 PM)GottmitunsAlex Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-14-2012, 06:11 PM)JayneK Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-14-2012, 05:24 PM)GottmitunsAlex Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-14-2012, 05:13 PM)Jesusbrea Wrote: [ -> ]It is not a claim, it is a fact. One word to describe your attitude is DENIAL. Of the many cardinals* that Benedict could had chosen for the role, even when non-traditional in the full sense of the word (Burke, Ranjith, even Cardinal Cañizares) he picks precisely THIS. Hell, Levada was a staunch thomist traditionalist in comparison.

*I might add, why not make Bishop Schneider a Cardinal and appoint him for the role?
Cause Schneider is an antiquated theologian.
He does not speak in ambiguous terms.
He offers the TLM.
And there would be no window of opportunity to make him suspect of heresy. Hence, the modernists would not defend him like they do Muller et al.

Do you have any evidence to support any of these claims?  They seem to come from your imagination.

BTW, Here is the "evidence" http://www.churchmilitant.tv/documents/v...-01-20.pdf

I do not deny the Bishop Schneider is a good bishop and I am sure there is plenty of evidence to back that up.  But you are claiming that the Pope did not appoint him to head the CDF because the Pope does not want a good bishop in that position.  That is the idea that comes from your imagination and cannot be supported by evidence.
(07-14-2012, 07:32 PM)Dmorgan Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-14-2012, 06:22 PM)jonbhorton Wrote: [ -> ]All combined, the SSPX in total probably doesn't even meet the same numbers as just the Diocese of Frieburg, which serves around 2 million. Germany has over 25million+ Catholics.

The SSPX is a drop in the bucket. Would be bad for them to go into formal schism, but Germany is about to swirl like a turd down the sewer pipe.

Bishop Muller's appointment seems more likely to address Germany than the SSPX.

The baby with a bottle in his mouth may scream, but the hungry infant is the one which gets attention.

This may well be true, considering the amount of disidents that are active in the Priesthood in Germany. But it certainly has a precedent to follow; Martin Luther ring a bell?
Really, i cannot see a justification for making a marginally orthodox Bishop the head of CDF just to placate the dissenters in the germanic region. If they choose to leave, so be it. But the possible damage to the entire Church is much more important than some whinning heretics.

It is not to placate them.  It is because Archbishop Muller seems to have what it takes to stand against them.  The Pope wants an ally for going after these people and there is every reason to believe that he has chosen such an ally.  The dissidents hate this appointment.  They are clearly not placated.
(07-14-2012, 06:08 PM)JayneK Wrote: [ -> ]Many people in this thread do not seem even willing to consider the possibility that the Pope knows what he is doing. 

He knows what he's doing.  He sincerely believes in religious liberty, ecumenism (Assisi III), and collegiality.

He has forgotten that the Catholic Church condemns all three errors.
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