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Number CCLXI (261)  14 July 2012

BENEDICT’S ECUMENISM VI

It was promised that in the last of this series of “Eleison Comments” articles inspired by Dr Wolfgang Schuler’s book on “Benedict XVI and the Church’s View of Itself” its main lesson would be applied to the present situation of the Society of St Pius X. The application has already been suggested: if one can only be Catholic by belonging to the living organism of the Catholic Church, then one will become Conciliar by belonging to the organism of the Conciliar Church.

Benedict XVI holds that Catholic pieces cut off from the Catholic Church still belong to the Church of Christ. Dr Schuler, following Our Lord (Jn. XV, 1-7), argues on the contrary that the Church being a living organism, then branches cut off it wither and die, because it is the plant that gives them its life. It follows that if the SSPX is grafted onto the Conciliar plant which is wholly diseased with the Vatican II religion of man, then the Conciliar plant will transmit its disease to the SSPX. Here are three quotes of Archbishop which express this reality:--

In 1984, well before the Episcopal consecrations of 1988, he condemned in advance the illusion that the SSPX, by “getting back inside the Church would be able to fight, to do this, to do that”. He replied, “That is absolutely untrue. You don’t get back inside a structure, putting yourself beneath its superiors, and expect that once inside you are going to turn everything upside down. The reality is that they have everything they need to strangle us. They have all the authority.”

In 1988, just before the consecrations, he said, “Rome wants everything to go Vatican II, while they leave us a little bit of Tradition. (...) They are not changing their position. We cannot put ourselves in the hands of those people. We would be fooling ourselves. We do not mean to let ourselves be eaten up. (...) Little by little Tradition would be compromised.”

In 1989, soon after the consecrations, he answered the objection that the SSPX would have done more good for the Church by staying inside than by getting itself put outside. He replied,“What Church are we talking about ? If you mean the Conciliar Church, then we who have struggled against the Council for 40 years because we want the Catholic Church, we would have to re-enter this Conciliar Church in order, supposedly, to make it Catholic. That is a complete illusion. It is not the subjects that make the superiors, it is the superiors that make the subjects. Amidst the whole Roman Curia, amidst all the world’s bishops who are progressives, I would have been completely swamped. I would have been able to do nothing.”

In conclusion, if by any practical agreement or canonical regularization the SSPX were to put itself under the Conciliar authorities of the Church that are still firmly attached to the ideas of Vatican II, as the Doctrinal Discussions of 2009-2011 amply proved, then its defence of the true Faith would be “strangled, eaten up, swamped”. Grafted into the living Conciliar whole, it could not help receiving from it the diseased Conciliar life. God forbid !

Kyrie eleison.
:clap: :clap:
Bp. Williamson has been consistently logical throughout this whole episode of the last few years.  Bp. Fellay by contrast has acted more like  a conciliar prelate.  It's looking like Williamson has been proven right with regards to the doctrinal discussions and the recent appointments in Rome seem to bear that out.  Fellay has been despotic towards Williamson for being right more than being "rebellious." 

Regardless of what happens in the General Chapter, there will be a splitting of the SSPX one part of it will be amicable towards a regularization with the highly irregular crisis laden organizational structure and the other will simply be the same old SSPX albeit in a rebuilding stage. 
(07-13-2012, 11:13 PM)Gerard Wrote: [ -> ]Bp. Williamson has been consistently logical throughout this whole episode of the last few years.  Bp. Fellay by contrast has acted more like  a conciliar prelate.  It's looking like Williamson has been proven right with regards to the doctrinal discussions and the recent appointments in Rome seem to bear that out.  Fellay has been despotic towards Williamson for being right more than being "rebellious." 

Regardless of what happens in the General Chapter, there will be a splitting of the SSPX one part of it will be amicable towards a regularization with the highly irregular crisis laden organizational structure and the other will simply be the same old SSPX albeit in a rebuilding stage. 

Bishop Williamson hasn't been logical.  He's condeming a deal that hasn't been done, and attacking his superior in the process.  The only deal that the SSPX has indicated they would agree to is one where they are autonomous from conciliar prelates, not under them.  Bishop Williamson is fighting make believe holograms, kind of like the ones he saw committing the September 11th attacks. 
(07-13-2012, 11:22 PM)PeterII Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-13-2012, 11:13 PM)Gerard Wrote: [ -> ]Bp. Williamson has been consistently logical throughout this whole episode of the last few years.  Bp. Fellay by contrast has acted more like  a conciliar prelate.  It's looking like Williamson has been proven right with regards to the doctrinal discussions and the recent appointments in Rome seem to bear that out.  Fellay has been despotic towards Williamson for being right more than being "rebellious." 

Regardless of what happens in the General Chapter, there will be a splitting of the SSPX one part of it will be amicable towards a regularization with the highly irregular crisis laden organizational structure and the other will simply be the same old SSPX albeit in a rebuilding stage. 

Bishop Williamson hasn't been logical.  He's condeming a deal that hasn't been done, and attacking his superior in the process.  The only deal that the SSPX has indicated they would agree to is one where they are autonomous from conciliar prelates, not under them.  Bishop Williamson is fighting make believe holograms, kind of like the ones he saw committing the September 11th attacks. 
"You're wrong Messala!"
Just look at the recent events starting in April. It appeared that there would be a deal with conciliar Rome, despite those clergymen in the Vatican still g  on to the concilliar novelties.
(07-13-2012, 11:22 PM)PeterII Wrote: [ -> ]Bishop Williamson hasn't been logical.  He's condeming a deal that hasn't been done, and attacking his superior in the process.  The only deal that the SSPX has indicated they would agree to is one where they are autonomous from conciliar prelates, not under them.  Bishop Williamson is fighting make believe holograms, kind of like the ones he saw committing the September 11th attacks. 

Actually, Williamson has been the one who was attacked, publicly, unnecessarily and in the most cowardly ways by Fellay, Schmidberger, Pfluger and a few other of the elites.  Williamson has been warning of a deal before any doctrinal turnaround from Rome. Rome has made no effort to address the errors from and or in Vatican II and its aftermath.  

Keep smoking what your smoking concerning an "autonomous deal."  

What's your quote about Williamson re: "holograms"?    You keep mentioning it here and there without expanding on it.  You seem to be using it in an unjustified way as a slur.   Sort of like the way an Atheist uses the "Flying Spaghetti Monster" analogy with God.  You know, like an ass.  
(07-13-2012, 11:25 PM)GottmitunsAlex Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-13-2012, 11:22 PM)PeterII Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-13-2012, 11:13 PM)Gerard Wrote: [ -> ]Bp. Williamson has been consistently logical throughout this whole episode of the last few years.  Bp. Fellay by contrast has acted more like  a conciliar prelate.  It's looking like Williamson has been proven right with regards to the doctrinal discussions and the recent appointments in Rome seem to bear that out.  Fellay has been despotic towards Williamson for being right more than being "rebellious." 

Regardless of what happens in the General Chapter, there will be a splitting of the SSPX one part of it will be amicable towards a regularization with the highly irregular crisis laden organizational structure and the other will simply be the same old SSPX albeit in a rebuilding stage. 

Bishop Williamson hasn't been logical.  He's condeming a deal that hasn't been done, and attacking his superior in the process.  The only deal that the SSPX has indicated they would agree to is one where they are autonomous from conciliar prelates, not under them.  Bishop Williamson is fighting make believe holograms, kind of like the ones he saw committing the September 11th attacks. 
"You're wrong Messala!"

No I'm not.  That's why the SSPX leadership doesn't want to even listen to him.  He doesn't address the real issue: Would Bishop Williamson agree to a deal if the SSPX could remain autonomous of conciliar prelates in a unique structure? 
(07-13-2012, 11:40 PM)PeterII Wrote: [ -> ]He doesn't address the real issue: Would Bishop Williamson agree to a deal if the SSPX could remain autonomous of conciliar prelates in a unique structure? 

The crisis is the "real issue" not the canonical standing of the SSPX.  Bp. Fellay not too many years ago referred to the "zoo" mentality of regularization.  He made sense then, like LeFebvre before him, like Williamson now. 
Gerard Wrote:What's your quote about Williamson re: "holograms"?    You keep mentioning it here and there without expanding on it.  You seem to be using it in an unjustified way as a slur.   Sort of like the way an Atheist uses the "Flying Spaghetti Monster" analogy with God.  You know, like an ass.  

Your hero held a conference in a Church basement I attended where he showed photographic "evidence" that the planes which flew into the Twin Towers were holograms, as revealed to him by an Austrian professor.  I look forward to your apologia.
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