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Full Version: Cardinal Carlo Martini says Church '200 years behind'
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(09-02-2012, 12:46 PM)Unum Sint Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-02-2012, 09:41 AM)TraditionalistThomas Wrote: [ -> ]Because traditionalists have been optimistic for 40 years. No significant improvement yet.

Lol no we haven't, I have never met an optimistic trad. As a matter of fact I think that optimism disqualifies you to be a trad to begin with.

:idea:  So that's why I have so much trouble convincing people I'm a trad.
(09-02-2012, 12:46 PM)Unum Sint Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-02-2012, 09:41 AM)TraditionalistThomas Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-02-2012, 09:10 AM)Rosarium Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-02-2012, 09:08 AM)TraditionalistThomas Wrote: [ -> ]Sure, that sounds nice in theory, but it isn't reality. Another heretic/heterodox prelate will take his place, personally appointed by the Holy Father. The crisis will continue.

Why do you want to think evil?

The crisis, like all assaults on the Church, will have a "beginning" and an "end", but the same assault remains.

Because traditionalists have been optimistic for 40 years. No significant improvement yet.

Lol no we haven't, I have never met an optimistic trad. As a matter of fact I think that optimism disqualifies you to be a trad to begin with.

So you find the virtues of Faith and Hope to be something that trads cannot have?

There isn't optimism. There is just the revelation of how everything ends. Evil is rampant. Many are lost. However, Christ triumphs in the end and many are saved.

That is not optimism. It is fact. The question is, where will I be?
(09-02-2012, 12:48 PM)Rosarium Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-02-2012, 12:46 PM)Unum Sint Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-02-2012, 09:41 AM)TraditionalistThomas Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-02-2012, 09:10 AM)Rosarium Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-02-2012, 09:08 AM)TraditionalistThomas Wrote: [ -> ]Sure, that sounds nice in theory, but it isn't reality. Another heretic/heterodox prelate will take his place, personally appointed by the Holy Father. The crisis will continue.

Why do you want to think evil?

The crisis, like all assaults on the Church, will have a "beginning" and an "end", but the same assault remains.

Because traditionalists have been optimistic for 40 years. No significant improvement yet.

Lol no we haven't, I have never met an optimistic trad. As a matter of fact I think that optimism disqualifies you to be a trad to begin with.

So you find the virtues of Faith and Hope to be something that trads cannot have?

There isn't optimism. There is just the revelation of how everything ends. Evil is rampant. Many are lost. However, Christ triumphs in the end and many are saved.

That is not optimism. It is fact. The question is, where will I be?

Theologically speaking of course you are right. However as far as the "attitude" is concerned we are def not on the optimistic side of the bed.
(09-02-2012, 12:50 PM)Unum Sint Wrote: [ -> ]Theologically speaking of course you are right.
And that is what matters.

Quote:However as far as the "attitude" is concerned we are def not on the optimistic side of the bed.
Why should we be distracted by the temporal?

This crisis is only one at this time.

I just came back from Mass, made some burritos, and am sitting in front of my computer drinking some tea and reading on theology (and using this forum).

My parish has a very good priest, all the sacraments, and we are having Confirmations this month in the traditional Roman rite. I am physically, mentally, and spiritually secure.

Meanwhile, study the situation in North Korea, the trials in many Asian and African nations for Christians, and the temporal strife all over the world in various places.

In light of history and the current situation in the world, I would suspect almost everyone who uses this forum is in a place where optimism is appropriate, if only because of the great blessings we have received in most areas in our lives.
(09-02-2012, 12:57 PM)Rosarium Wrote: [ -> ]In light of history and the current situation in the world, I would suspect almost everyone who uses this forum is in a place where optimism is appropriate, if only because of the great blessings we have received in most areas in our lives.

Amen to that!

My diocesan parish just received a new junior priest. Cassock, biretta and he's already started training in the TLM from the pastor.

I am very blessed in all spheres of my life. And by God's grace I have faith... what greater blessing is there than that?
(09-02-2012, 01:41 PM)Adeodatus01 Wrote: [ -> ]I am very blessed in all spheres of my life. And by God's grace I have faith... what greater blessing is there than that?

Now you have the luxury of having time to complain about how bad it is  :)
Well one more piece of liberal trash gone. In a more genteel time his body would have been dragged through Rome and dumped in the Tiber. Ah well, The new Priests coming up are much more faithful. Things are slowly improving.
He said that birth control prohibition drove people away... so, he insinuates that accepting it is going to have more people? ... but these people would be in mortal sin... what's the point of that? a human club? because, if there is no purpose of salvation, what's the point?

The same could be said of other progressives in that line... what's the point? what are they thinking?
The Church's budging on birth control seems similar to the Renaissance Church's surrender on the issues of usury and slavery.

And before someone comes waving their finger at me about the difference between the eternal Magisterium and the human Church hierarchy, I get it. Still, the pattern is the same: people start breaking the rules, the Church acknowledges some loopholes or exceptions to make it okay. Everyone starts doing it, then the Church backs down to save face. Much like Communion in the hand. When the Portuguese started capturing slaves, Pope Nicholas V said it was okay because those slaves were Muslims and pagans. Enslaving Christians was still forbidden. Then when all the slaves were Christianized, it was just damn inconvenient to say they had to be freed, so the Church went along with it for a few centuries. It took a bunch of Protestant Whigs to start the abolitionist movement.

A similar story can be related on usury, but that's the Jewish vice of choice, so that's never going away in our lifetimes.
(09-02-2012, 09:41 AM)TraditionalistThomas Wrote: [ -> ]Because traditionalists have been optimistic for 40 years. No significant improvement yet.

You can't be serious ?

Even JPII granted indult for the TLM. BXVI has freed it from indult. There is more if you take the time to look.

I'm sorry, but there is improvement. The only thing getting worse is the hardness of hearts and the schismatic mindset of the radical trads,

Denial of the good doesn't mean it's not happening.

There is a lot of evil and error still to be undone, I agree. No denying that.

jmo
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