FishEaters Traditional Catholic Forums

Full Version: Cardinal Carlo Martini says Church '200 years behind'
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6
(09-02-2012, 12:46 PM)Unum Sint Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-02-2012, 09:41 AM)TraditionalistThomas Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-02-2012, 09:10 AM)Rosarium Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-02-2012, 09:08 AM)TraditionalistThomas Wrote: [ -> ]Sure, that sounds nice in theory, but it isn't reality. Another heretic/heterodox prelate will take his place, personally appointed by the Holy Father. The crisis will continue.

Why do you want to think evil?

The crisis, like all assaults on the Church, will have a "beginning" and an "end", but the same assault remains.

Because traditionalists have been optimistic for 40 years. No significant improvement yet.

Lol no we haven't, I have never met an optimistic trad. As a matter of fact I think that optimism disqualifies you to be a trad to begin with.

:LOL:

(09-03-2012, 02:37 AM)TraditionalistThomas Wrote: [ -> ]The scandalous Popes of the Renaissance were depraved, but they were theologically sound. That is not the case with the modern Popes.

Disagree on your interpretation of Reformation history there dude.  Popes of the renaissance were in many cases notorious blasphemers securing the Vatican for reasons of personal wealth and power.  There's no need to defend them as theologically sound.
(09-03-2012, 02:41 AM)Norbert Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-03-2012, 02:37 AM)TraditionalistThomas Wrote: [ -> ]The scandalous Popes of the Renaissance were depraved, but they were theologically sound. That is not the case with the modern Popes.

Disagree on your interpretation of Reformation history there dude.  Popes of the renaissance were in many cases notorious blasphemers securing the Vatican for reasons of personal wealth and power.  There's no need to defend them as theologically sound.

Yes I know that. They were very immoral. That hasn't got to do with their theology or what they taught as Popes.
(09-03-2012, 02:47 AM)TraditionalistThomas Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-03-2012, 02:41 AM)Norbert Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-03-2012, 02:37 AM)TraditionalistThomas Wrote: [ -> ]The scandalous Popes of the Renaissance were depraved, but they were theologically sound. That is not the case with the modern Popes.

Disagree on your interpretation of Reformation history there dude.  Popes of the renaissance were in many cases notorious blasphemers securing the Vatican for reasons of personal wealth and power.  There's no need to defend them as theologically sound.

Yes I know that. They were very immoral. That hasn't got to do with their theology or what they taught as Popes.

I'll have to look into it.  Doesn't change the fact that I'd rather have BXVI than the guy who probably had male lovers and burned bibles.  I really like your sig quote btw.
(09-02-2012, 11:44 PM)Pheo Wrote: [ -> ]The thing I don't understand is that he was a bishop under Pope JPII for 25 years (and a cardinal for 23).  People tell me that JPII may not have been privy to all the facts when he was recommended for the episcopacy - fine, I don't know all the facts.  But how was he allowed to roam around and spread error with so much authority for so long without being reined in?  It strikes me as nothing less than gross negligence.

I have the impression that JPII was a poor administrator in terms of personnel issues.  He did not seem to have a good track record for appointing people or controlling them.  I do not think that Cardinal Martini was an isolated case.
(09-02-2012, 11:55 PM)Phillipus Iacobus Wrote: [ -> ]and Benedict XVI says he thinks "fondly of this dear brother who generously served the Gospel and the Church. I remember with gratitude his intense apostolic work, which he generously carried out as a zealous religious and spiritual son of St. Ignatius, an exceptional teacher, authoritative biblical scholar and esteemed rector of the Pontifical Gregorian University and the Pontifical Biblical Institute, and then as a diligent and wise archbishop of this Ambrosian Archdiocese. I also think of the competent and fervent service he rendered to the Word of God, by opening to the ecclesial community the treasures of sacred Scripture, especially through the promotion of lectio divina."

This might just be a "don't speak ill of the dead" sort of thing rather than a real assessment.  I wouldn't give it a lot of weight.
(09-03-2012, 02:40 AM)TraditionalistThomas Wrote: [ -> ]I know that 40 years is nothing in the life of the Church. But I don't see what is the point of being blindly optimistic about the current crisis in the Church. That does not mean that I am betraying faith, hope and charity. It means that I am being realistic.

It sounds to me like you are blindly pessimistic, not realistic, if you see no improvements at all.
Speaking of "don't speak ill of the dead,"  I just found this on Rorate Caeili:
Quote: De mortuis nihil nisi bonum
A good rule, certainly, a hallmark of civilization, and one we have always observed.

When the dead person himself chooses to cause uproar in a "posthumous" interview timed to be released immediately following his death and published in order to criticize the Church that gave him everything he had and that made him everything he was, then, our prayers having been said, we can only affirm, without referring to any specific person: the Militant Church is better off without those who think and act against the whole purpose of the hierarchy - handing down unaltered that which they received. Without those who did all they could and still do all they can to infuse the hierarchy with pure evil and relativistic rot. "They are a wicked and perverse generation," nothing good has come or will come from them. We can "shake off the dust" from our feet, and move on: let us move on from the obsessions of the 1960s, even if some just cannot let go, even from "beyond" the grave...
maybe we should pray for him.  :pray: :pray: :pray:
(09-05-2012, 12:19 AM)Poche Wrote: [ -> ]maybe we should pray for him.  :pray: :pray: :pray:

We should pray for all men, living and dead, but I think the Cardinal, as an apostate, will need our prayers more than most.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6