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There have been rumblings of the two masses merging -- a hybrid of sorts. 

How can the Novus Ordo mass enrich the TLM? 
Joking....


right?
I think it'd be one way only, a transfer from the TLM to the NO Mass. The rumors floated here have been new prefaces and adding feasts to the Kalendar.Easy peasy, it changes nothing really in the TLM.

tim
The Novus Ordo can enrich the TLM in one way: it can make us truly grateful for the Mass in Latin.
(10-05-2012, 07:04 PM)onosurf Wrote: [ -> ]How can the Novus Ordo mass enrich the TLM? 

Okay, I'll bite. If I were Pope, I would consider a plan to:

1.) Restore lessons from the Old Testament during the Mass of the Catechumens on Sundays and greater feasts. One-year cycle, chanted by a lector in cassock and surplice from the lectern on the Epistle side of the chancel. There are vestigial remnants of these in the TLM for the Ember days. Restoring these would teach the faithful that the Old Testament prophets, not just the Psalms, are still relevant to our daily lives.

2.) Restore the intercessory prayers in between the Creed and the Offertory. Chanted by the deacon facing the altar, not from a layman facing the people. The obvious vestigial remnant of these in the TLM is in the intercessions of Good Friday. Alternatively, bidding prayers could be made before Mass, like in the Use of Sarum.

3.) Authorize the use of full psalms during the Gradual. As it stands, the Gradual is usually only one or two verses, though certain Masses still have much fuller versions. (I'm thinking of the Gradual from the First Sunday of Lent, which took our schola something like 13 minutes to sing because we chose to use the full chant from the Liber.)

4.) Restore tropes, or verses for the Kyrie. This is actually an option in the Novus Ordo. The tropes from the medieval Mass are where we get the names for the different Gregorian Masses (Orbis Factor, Cum Jubilo, Lux et Origo, etc.) This is the Kyrie Orbis Factor:




All the principles above are based in maximization of the liturgy, not minimization. I have no qualm with saying they were removed from the liturgy in earlier ages probably out of laziness or misguided attempts to "purify" the liturgy of medieval accretions.
On second thought, I suppose nothing in my list actually has anything to do with the Novus Ordo in itself. They coincidentally appear in the Novus Ordo's reforms, though badly implemented.
Anything that would enrich the traditional Mass I'd never say as the Novus Ordo enriching it. It would be rather reaching back to the sources they used. The sacramentaries, and such like. I would like proper ferial days in Advent (a true innovation of the NO). I would like the Prayer of the Faithful (but more disciplined). I would like perhaps the third reading. I would like anything meant for the people to be facing the people. Anything meant for God, to face God. The most unique things about the NO I don't particularly like, which are the changes to the prayers and propers. I think it was way too extreme.
Reminds me of the Mass I was at this past Sunday; I hope never to see its like, again.
Put simply, there is nothing in the NO to my mind that would enrich the TLM.  The judicious addition of new saints' feasts to the Calendar would be welcome; I don't think the addition of new prefaces is a problem, but I can't imagine they could honestly be said to "enrich" the traditional Missal.  I'd have to ask a priest who has used them, but did the insertion of the Gallican prefaces in the 1962 Missal really enrich it?

The only changes that could be said to enrich the 1962 Missal would be to move in the opposite direction - things like restoring the traditional Holy Week rites.  Both versions of the Missal could potentially be enriched by recouping truly traditional elements from the historic Roman Rite and its uses, like some of the sequences for major feasts that were suppressed after Trent, e.g., the Christmas sequence Laetabundus.  Recovering beautiful elements from the Church's past might be desirable, but certainly not adopting more committee creations based on the inventive whims of liturgists.
(10-05-2012, 07:37 PM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-05-2012, 07:04 PM)onosurf Wrote: [ -> ]How can the Novus Ordo mass enrich the TLM? 

Okay, I'll bite. If I were Pope, I would consider a plan to:

1.) Restore lessons from the Old Testament during the Mass of the Catechumens on Sundays and greater feasts. One-year cycle, chanted by a lector in cassock and surplice from the lectern on the Epistle side of the chancel. There are vestigial remnants of these in the TLM for the Ember days. Restoring these would teach the faithful that the Old Testament prophets, not just the Psalms, are still relevant to our daily lives.

2.) Restore the intercessory prayers in between the Creed and the Offertory. Chanted by the deacon facing the altar, not from a layman facing the people. The obvious vestigial remnant of these in the TLM is in the intercessions of Good Friday. Alternatively, bidding prayers could be made before Mass, like in the Use of Sarum.

3.) Authorize the use of full psalms during the Gradual. As it stands, the Gradual is usually only one or two verses, though certain Masses still have much fuller versions. (I'm thinking of the Gradual from the First Sunday of Lent, which took our schola something like 13 minutes to sing because we chose to use the full chant from the Liber.)

4.) Restore tropes, or verses for the Kyrie. This is actually an option in the Novus Ordo. The tropes from the medieval Mass are where we get the names for the different Gregorian Masses (Orbis Factor, Cum Jubilo, Lux et Origo, etc.) This is the Kyrie Orbis Factor:




All the principles above are based in maximization of the liturgy, not minimization. I have no qualm with saying they were removed from the liturgy in earlier ages probably out of laziness or misguided attempts to "purify" the liturgy of medieval accretions.


This is going to sound awful, but that sounds really... long. As a mother of a million little ones, could you have a shorter and equally holy Mass for young families?
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