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If the Consecration was done then Russia converts to the Catholic Faith and a period of peace is granted. Neither has happened.
tim
Allan,
You decide.  First, Sr. Lucia was not allowed to talk to anyone, so no one can confirm what it is she said.  Also, at that time, she was very old.  Maybe Bertone misinterpreted what she said, maybe he phrased his questions "right", maybe he is out right lying, maybe she did confirm it in her old age.  All we can say is no one knows since there is zero information on it.  Just a statement from Bertone that Sr. Lucia confirmed it.

Now, here is what she said right after the consecration, which is in an interview (around 1985).  Note we have the question and we have her answer:
Quote: In a 1985 interview, Sister Lucy was asked if the Pope fulfilled the request of Our Lady when he consecrated the world in 1984. Sister Lucy replied:

    "There was no participation of all the bishops, and there was no mention of Russia."

She was then asked, "So the consecration was not done as requested by Our Lady?" to which she replied:

    "No. Many bishops attached no importance to this act."

Next, AFTER he did the consecration of the WORLD, JPII said this prayer (as quoted from his own newspaper):
JPII Wrote:"Enlighten especially the peoples of which You Yourself are awaiting our consecration and confiding."

So you decide.  As far as Bertone, he is the same man who says the secret has been released, even though the official Vatican statement from 1960 which said it was not being released specifically says "the WORDS of our Lady contained in the LETTER from Lucia" will most probably never be revealed.  We have a notebook containing a vision that Lucia had, and you will notice no words from Our Lady.
(10-26-2012, 04:37 PM)Allan Wrote: [ -> ]I don't understand.  I read +Bertone's book, and he was pretty clear that the consecration had been done.  The book even said that Sr. Lucia confirmed it.   ???


Allan, I think that you are probably the last man of this forum to believe that the Consecration was properly done
I pray that good comes out of this regardless. The fact that the EU, godless as it is, will even take a look at it is amazing.
(10-26-2012, 04:50 PM)Tim Wrote: [ -> ]If the Consecration was done then Russia converts to the Catholic Faith and a period of peace is granted. Neither has happened.
tim

Did Our Lady promise an instant conversion and period of peace?  Why can't it happen 100 years after?  Why not 1000?  To God a thousand years is but a moment.

I'm not being snarky, I'm genuinely asking....
(10-26-2012, 07:00 PM)DrBombay Wrote: [ -> ]Did Our Lady promise an instant conversion and period of peace?  Why can't it happen 100 years after?  Why not 1000?  To God a thousand years is but a moment.

I'm not being snarky, I'm genuinely asking....

The most plausible opinion is that it is gradual. Even the Fatima center holds this, but maybe not as gradual as what it seems now, which is non-existent. Their common example is Mexico, in which after Our Lady of Guadalupe there was mass conversion, which is said to be so dramatic that it took years to complete the baptism.s. But who knows. It isn't like God needs to follow our rules and thoughts on the matter. He can work as slow or fast as he wants. We shouldn't put our vision on top of it, and then when nothing happens, we lose hope, or jump to new silliness. Kind of like the Adventists, and other date setters.
Quote:Did Our Lady promise an instant conversion and period of peace?  Why can't it happen 100 years after?  Why not 1000?  To God a thousand years is but a moment.

I'm not being snarky, I'm genuinely asking....
I don't know.  The message seems to point to a rather quick (miraculous) conversion:
Quote:The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; various nations will be annihilated. In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and she shall be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world.
  It doesn't prove that it is quick, but that would be the logical interpretation.

Also from Jesus:
Quote:'Because I want My whole Church to acknowledge that consecration as a triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary so that it may extend its cult later on and put the devotion to this Immaculate Heart beside the devotion to My Sacred Heart.'"
  I believe this points to a miraculous conversion.

However, all of this is moot, as the evidence I posted above is overwhelming that the consecration has not been done.
(10-25-2012, 09:44 PM)DrBombay Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-25-2012, 08:02 PM)Carthusian Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-25-2012, 07:35 PM)Tim Wrote: [ -> ]but if Pope Benedict XVI orders it and they refuse tt co-operate it's on them and the Consecration is good.

Is this what Our Lady said?  She gave this caveat of dissenting bishops in her message? 

See, how it works is this.  The Pope must specifically mention the word Russia in the Consecration, otherwise the incantation is void.  But "all the bishops of the world" is a fluid term.  It could actually mean only the Bishop of Rome if all the other bishops refuse to do it.  In fact, Our Lady might accept the Consecration even if not done by the bishop of Rome, simply if Fr. Gruner wills it.  He wears a threadbare cassock you know.     :tiphat:

Sigh.
This was posted on CI:


What Happened At Fatima
By CC Martindale SJ (1879-1963)
London Catholic Truth Society, Pamphlet No. B402 (16 pages)
First published in 1950. Reprinted in 1986.

(Fr Martindale also published a more detailed book : The Message of Fatima).

Some extracts:

He met and was “ immensely impressed “ with the parents of Jacinta and Francisco. (footnote:page5).

“ I regret that space forbids me to relate the exquisite deaths of Francisco (April 4, 1919) and Jacinta (Feb.20, 1920). The story of their spiritualisation, especially the boy’s, is, for me, almost proof positive of the authenticity of the Apparition.” (footnote: page 3).

Canon Formigao, who “quasi-officially” represented the Portuguese hierarchy was one “ to whom we owe our most reliable information about those early years.” (page 5).

On October 19, 1917, Canon Formigao asked Lucia: ‘If the people understand the “secret” would they be sad?’.
She replied: ‘ I think they would be as they are, practically the same.’    (page 8)

“The Pope did in fact consecrate the world to our Lady’s Immaculate Heart on October 31, 1942, speaking in Portuguese ‘with special reference to Russia’ (although not naming that country), which Lucia now said was just what our Lady asked for.” (page 16).

“It need hardly be recalled that the devotion to our Lady’s Heart is in no sense parallel to that of the Sacred Heart of our Lord. Because our Lord was true God and true Man, two Natures united in one Person. He is wholly adorable with divine worship. This cannot be said of our Lady, who is not divine at all, and the devotion to her ‘Heart’ is purely metaphorical. However, in each case the ‘Heart’ is meant to express the very inmost selfhood, so to say, of Him, or her, whom we are contemplating and with whom we seek, so far as possible, to unite ourselves.” (footnote: page 16).
(10-27-2012, 05:11 AM)Walty Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-25-2012, 09:44 PM)DrBombay Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-25-2012, 08:02 PM)Carthusian Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-25-2012, 07:35 PM)Tim Wrote: [ -> ]but if Pope Benedict XVI orders it and they refuse tt co-operate it's on them and the Consecration is good.

Is this what Our Lady said?  She gave this caveat of dissenting bishops in her message? 

See, how it works is this.  The Pope must specifically mention the word Russia in the Consecration, otherwise the incantation is void.  But "all the bishops of the world" is a fluid term.  It could actually mean only the Bishop of Rome if all the other bishops refuse to do it.  In fact, Our Lady might accept the Consecration even if not done by the bishop of Rome, simply if Fr. Gruner wills it.  He wears a threadbare cassock you know.     :tiphat:

Sigh.

Come now, Walty.  You don't find it a bit odd that the word "Russia" must be specifically mentioned by the Pope in order for the Consecration to take but the stipulation that all the world's bishops participate is mutable and subject to a dozen different interpretations?  Why is "Russia" so particular and specific but "all the world's bishops" so vague, hmmmm? If the Grunerites were as generous in interpreting the "Russia" clause as they are in interpreting the "bishops" clause they would've accepted the Consecration years ago and we all would have moved along.  Of course, that wouldn't have been as profitable for certain fashion challenged clerics but it would've been much more spiritually healthy for the rest of us.
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