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    He probably retains the right to say Mass privately  for himself  because he is still a priest; but his faculties have been removed.  Other than that  I have nothing to say except that who can know the true story but only God &John Corapi?    There has been a lot of scandal in the Church.  And if a person doesn't think that SSP and other orders don't have some legitimate questions about the present condition of the Church then  I just don't know.

        And  I  have been looking into just one issue and have been for 4 years.  I have read extensively.  But that is something for another thread.

May God Keep & Protect  Us,
Militaris Christi
 
(11-06-2012, 11:57 PM)Gerard Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-06-2012, 03:57 PM)voxxpopulisuxx Wrote: [ -> ]I dont hate corapi. Answer this..if God gives a man a vocation to be a priest how can he abandon it? The only hate is from hating the question

You falsely assert that Corapi abandoned it, therefore your question is biased. His ministry was taken away from him.  He's still a priest.  How does a man abandon what is forcibly taken from him? 
well I am asserting something I think is true because of the below statement by himself. If he in fact has not given up the priesthood...but simply the moniker of "father"....and has decided to simply be a solitary...then I have zero beef...but I listen to the below statement and all I hear from his own lips is that...He will give up public ministry...he will no longer be called father...he will look after the whole world through some royal "we" called the black sheep dog. I dont think it unreasonable listening to the statement to think he has abandoned the priesthood. Eternal mark on his soul notwithstanding. Does he hear confessions...does he confect the host...does he anoint the sick....any of these things? Maybe he does....if thats the case then of course I am in error of fact. But if he has in fact as I assert...offering the evidence of his own statement ...AND the fact he hasn't kept most of any of his promises at the end of his statement.( if he had I might be a strong supporter as I support Malichi Martin in many things he did after asking to be released from his vows)...that he has abandoned his station...then I have EVERY right and duty to DESPISE (not hate) that action as scandalous and giving a horrible example. Jesus Christ himself was wrongly accused...but went to his cross SILENT and willing as we are all called to do...according to the BSD's OWN statement he did not follow Christ...he followed the actions of mankind. And quite frankly comes off as whiny and effeminate....anyway  The Irony is you have accused me of all kinds of evil things (and convicted and judged me to boot) but see no hypocrisy in this...I have NEVER questioned your catholicity nor have I called your intentions or your soul demonic...but yet you have done theses things to me...I am a Father, I suffer injustice and persecutions,,, AND I have to provide sustenance for my wife and children and those who work for me. BSD,s is by his own admission is rich and free from responsability. And yet you defend him if full throat and with cultish zeal...but me I get condemnation and judgment from you....the hypocricy is KNEEEEEE deep.
Black sheep dog said the following (full transcript here- http://bluepanjeet.net/2011/06/20/11769/...riesthood/
All things change, only God stays the same, so I have to tell you about a major change in my life. I am not going to be involved in public ministry as a priest any longer......................
I can’t do what I can’t do. I can only do what I can do. I shall continue, black sheep that I am, to speak; and sheep dog that I am, to guard the sheep—this time around not just in the Church, but also in the entire world. I am, indeed, not ready to be extinguished. Under the name “The Black Sheep Dog,” I shall be with you through radio broadcasts and writing. My autobiography, “The Black Sheep Dog,” is almost ready for publication. My topics will be broader than in the past, and my audience likewise is apt to be broader. I’ll do what I can under the circumstances..........................God bless you, God love you, and goodbye.John Corapi (once called “father,” now “The Black Sheep Dog”)
(11-07-2012, 06:59 PM)voxxpopulisuxx Wrote: [ -> ]well I am asserting something I think is true because of the below statement by himself. If he in fact has not given up the priesthood...but simply the moniker of "father"....and has decided to simply be a solitary...then I have zero beef...

You act like the priesthood is a big deal to yourself and then you refer to the title of "Father" as  a "moniker." 

Quote: but I listen to the below statement and all I hear from his own lips is that...He will give up public ministry...he will no longer be called father...he will look after the whole world through some royal "we" called the black sheep dog.

You've got a problem with the Church giving him that option.  You also call the title he's forced to relinquish a "moniker" and then trash him for using a real a moniker he had before any of the accusations were leveled against him. 

Are you seriously that pissed off about a simple nickname?  No. You're not.  You don't run around taking shots at "Dagger John" 'Hughes or "The Red Priest" Antonio Vivalidi.

Quote: I dont think it unreasonable listening to the statement to think he has abandoned the priesthood. Eternal mark on his soul notwithstanding.

It's completely unreasonable.  What was within his power to continue his ministry as you state?  Hearing confessions? Saying Mass?  None of that was available to him anymore.  You claim to be going by the standard of his statement but you don't want to include this quote in your little smear campaign.  "“There are certain persons in authority in the Church that want me gone, and I shall be gone.”



Quote: Does he hear confessions...does he confect the host...does he anoint the sick....any of these things? Maybe he does....if thats the case then of course I am in error of fact.

Again, you are drawing a completely biased standard.  There are numerous priests who have duties that prevent them from being parish priests.  If you think every priest is hearing confessions regularly you are incredibly naive. 

You don't run around condemning Vivaldi anytime you hear his music do you?  If you do....

Quote: But if he has in fact as I assert...offering the evidence of his own statement ...AND the fact he hasn't kept most of any of his promises at the end of his statement.

1) Your assertion is false.

2) He isn't on your timetable and he did produce a DVD and a first set of lectures.  What happened subsequently, the public doesn't know.  So, you strike out on that one.  You were trashing him then anyway. 

Quote: ( if he had I might be a strong supporter as I support Malichi Martin in many things he did after asking to be released from his vows)

Fr. Martin had the most powerful Cardinal in the Church on his side and was a personal acquaintance of the Pope, so that's not a fair comparison. 

Second, it fails on the point that Corapi had the legal right to leave the ministry and was given the cooperation of the hierarchy.

Quote: "The civil suit against the former employee created a problem for SOLT investigators.

“In canon law, there can’t be any pressure on witnesses; they have to be completely free to speak. The investigation was compromised because of the pressure on the witnesses. There were other witnesses that also had signed non-disclosure agreements,” said Father Sheehan.

“The canon lawyers were in a difficult situation, and Father does have his civil rights and he decided to follow his legal counsel, which he had a right to do,” he said. “We tried to continue the investigation without speaking to the principal witnesses.”

The investigation was halted after Father Corapi “sent us a letter resigning from active ministry and religious life. I have written him a letter asking him to confirm that decision. If so, we will help him with this process of leaving religious life,” said Father Sheehan.

He expressed disappointment that Father Corapi chose not to remain in SOLT and to refuse the order’s invitation for him to live in community, leaving his Montana home. Father Sheehan said he had tried to arrange a meeting with Father Corapi before any final decision was announced, but had not heard back from him. Father Sheehan said that SOLT would issue a statement shortly.

“We wanted him to come back to the community, and that would have meant leaving everything he has. It would have been a drastic change for him,” Father Sheehan said. “We will continue to move pastorally and charitably, taking steps to protect his good name.

Where's your phoney outrage at Fr. Sheehan for being complicit in aiding Corapi to "divorce" the Church or "abandon the priesthood" or whatever other hypercharged rhetoric you want to use? 

Everything he did was above board.  Had he gone Rogue like Archbishop LeFebvre you'd be trashing him because he was Novus Ordo, I'm sure. 

Quote: ...that he has abandoned his station...then I have EVERY right and duty to DESPISE (not hate) that action as scandalous and giving a horrible example.

You have no moral right to selectively pick elements and events in a human being life and ignore others in order to create your own caricature that you can crucify  over and over again everytime someone asks a genuine question about the guy. 

You've been corrected and you ignore the facts.

Your behavior is despicable because you abandon all good morals for the irresistible chance to take shots at every occasion.

Quote: Jesus Christ himself was wrongly accused...but went to his cross SILENT and willing as we are all called to do...according to the BSD's OWN statement he did not follow Christ...he followed the actions of mankind.

You have a perverse understanding of Christ's sacrifice.  Christ told the truth, that He was the son of God and He allowed them to put him to death for HIS purposes not Caiaphas'  When someone slapped Christ he faced them down. 

Do you want Corapi to cooperate in the sins of others and allow scandals and destruction to go on unaddressed? Do you want Corapi to pay for SOLT's murder minded member's fines and them put himself in their care. You want them to silence all the good he was actually doing?

Quote: And quite frankly comes off as whiny and effeminate....anyway 

More cheap shots displaying your hatred. 


Quote:  The Irony is you have accused me of all kinds of evil things (and convicted and judged me to boot) but see no hypocrisy in this...I have NEVER questioned your catholicity nor have I called your intentions or your soul demonic...but yet you have done theses things to me...

1) Because you don't rebuke me, therefore I can't rebuke you when you pour filth and venom over someone who never did a damned thing to you?  Who only did good things publicly?  Don't make me sick. 

2) You deserve every rebuke you get.  Your words are disgusting, your relentless battering of someone you have no right to batter, you ignore facts and construct him into somethiing  like the White Whale and you are Ahab and all the hate of your life will be focused on him. 

Quote: I am a Father, I suffer injustice and persecutions,,, AND I have to provide sustenance for my wife and children and those who work for me. BSD,s is by his own admission is rich and free from responsability.


And Fr. Corapi is going to pay for that suffering!! Right?  Take all the time you've spent trashing the guy and relentlessly tearing into him and setting standards for him that you don't set for anyone else and then pretending he's failed those standards when he hasn't. 

He must be happy, right?  Because he's got his problems and they're not your problems.  As if it's a blessing for a man to lose all his responsibilities, and to have his name tarred publicly for years even after he's moved out of the spotlight. 

If you took all that time trashing him and prayed for him and your children and your state in life, who knows what good things you would be building.  Also you would be saving me a lot of time as well. 

Quote:  And yet you defend him if full throat and with cultish zeal...but me I get condemnation and judgment from you....the hypocricy is KNEEEEEE deep.


If you were the one being bullied  and someone was constantly unjustly attacking you, and contrary facts were evident, I would be defending you. 

Quote: Black sheep dog said the following (full transcript here- http://bluepanjeet.net/2011/06/20/11769/...riesthood/
All things change, only God stays the same, so I have to tell you about a major change in my life. I am not going to be involved in public ministry as a priest any longer......................
I can’t do what I can’t do. I can only do what I can do. I shall continue, black sheep that I am, to speak; and sheep dog that I am, to guard the sheep—this time around not just in the Church, but also in the entire world. I am, indeed, not ready to be extinguished. Under the name “The Black Sheep Dog,” I shall be with you through radio broadcasts and writing. My autobiography, “The Black Sheep Dog,” is almost ready for publication. My topics will be broader than in the past, and my audience likewise is apt to be broader. I’ll do what I can under the circumstances..........................God bless you, God love you, and goodbye.John Corapi (once called “father,” now “The Black Sheep Dog”)

Nothing wrong with what he said.  It's factual, it was all above board as far as the Church goes, and he took his shot.  What happened after that, we may never know. 

Whatever...I gave it a shot...your a fanboy...and I wont mess with someones infatuation.
(11-08-2012, 01:26 PM)voxxpopulisuxx Wrote: [ -> ]Whatever...I gave it a shot...your a fanboy...and I wont mess with someones infatuation.

All you did was take shots.  You spew evil.  And you will try to do it again.  You can't resist. You hate THAT much.
(11-07-2012, 02:24 AM)Gerard Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-07-2012, 02:02 AM)Joshua Wrote: [ -> ]His ministry and his Priestly life are two infinitely distinct things. All VoxPop and I are saying is that the move to cease living the sacramental and minsterial life of a Priest is something he chose to do because, as you have said, a Priest is forever a Priest of the order of Melchizedek.

He can pray, meditate, say his mass privately depending on the conditions of his leaving the priesthood, he can hear confessions and give last rites if he's called upon in a life or death emergency.  So, he can do all that while not having to place his physical safety into the hands of people that cultivate an atmosphere where those with murder on their minds can roam freely until caught by the secular authorities. 

Yes, I understand all of this, Gerard, but what troubles me is the manner in which he seems to have cast aside any external marks of his Priesthood. His last videos showed him with a dyed beard and sporting a leather motorcycle jacket and not a single clerical symbol to be found. His videos under the "Black Sheepdog" made reference to him as simply "John Corapi" with "Father" being conspicuously left out. His June 2011 announcement even said, "This is John Corapi, once called Father, now simply the Black Sheepdog".

None of that has any way whatsoever to do with his public ministry. Not a single bit. I too believe he has been the victim of a corrupt hierarchy, but the direction he has gone can only be called a self-laicization and I simply cannot look away from such a decision.
(11-08-2012, 01:59 PM)Joshua Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, I understand all of this, Gerard, but what troubles me is the manner in which he seems to have cast aside any external marks of his Priesthood. His last videos showed him with a dyed beard and sporting a leather motorcycle jacket and not a single clerical symbol to be found. His videos under the "Black Sheepdog" made reference to him as simply "John Corapi" with "Father" being conspicuously left out. His June 2011 announcement even said, "This is John Corapi, once called Father, now simply the Black Sheepdog".

None of that has any way whatsoever to do with his public ministry. Not a single bit. I too believe he has been the victim of a corrupt hierarchy, but the direction he has gone can only be called a self-laicization and I simply cannot look away from such a decision.

He was certainly speaking more clearly and in a more Catholic way than any conservative pundits that claim to be Catholic.  As far as "self-laicization" you accept the fact that he was the victim of a corrupt hierarchy but you simply don't like the solution he chose.  He said they wanted him gone and he would be gone.  He wouldn't be able to do "priestly" things because the "normal mode" of the Church would forbid it.  And Fr. Corapi did not see his situation as part and parcel of the larger crisis within the Church.  He wanted to address issues that he was hampered by, by the hierarchy  and made extensive lectures on abortion.  Again, we don't know what happened, legal trouble, personal health, safety issues, maybe he's retooling, maybe he thinks the enemy is too powerful to take on directly.  Nobody knows.

Fr. Malachi Martin allowed people to call him "Father Martin" or "Doctor Martin" but he preferred simply "Malachi" in order to avoid aires and confusion.  He didn't hide from his priesthood, and when questioned by Cardinal O'Connor he presented him with his celebrat (verified by Fr. Fiore and others) and that was that.  Card. O'Connor never questioned his credentials again.  (He ignored him instead.)




Gerard Wrote:He was certainly speaking more clearly and in a more Catholic way than any conservative pundits that claim to be Catholic.
I haven't said otherwise.
Gerard Wrote:As far as "self-laicization" you accept the fact that he was the victim of a corrupt hierarchy but you simply don't like the solution he chose.

Precisely. He has suffered an injustice (as far as we're aware of course) but laicization was not a stipulation of his dismissal from public ministry and there's nothing within Novus-Ordo Land that would have compelled him to seek out laicization in the absence of actually being ordered to do so. There's no reason as to why he has chosen to no longer identify himself as a Priest, and me saying so does not mean I'm vindicating Fr. Corapi's accusers.
Gerard Wrote:Fr. Malachi Martin allowed people to call him "Father Martin" or "Doctor Martin" but he preferred simply "Malachi" in order to avoid aires and confusion.

Fr. Martin initiated and completed the formal laicization process with Rome herself. Fr. Corapi has not, as far as I am aware. And yes, such formalities do matter. It is the prerogative of Holy Mother Church, as the instrument and bride of Christ, to dispense or to relieve her clerics of their obligations as she sees fit.
(11-08-2012, 07:00 PM)Joshua Wrote: [ -> ]Fr. Martin initiated and completed the formal laicization process with Rome herself. Fr. Corapi has not, as far as I am aware. And yes, such formalities do matter. It is the prerogative of Holy Mother Church, as the instrument and bride of Christ, to dispense or to relieve her clerics of their obligations as she sees fit.

I'll quote Fr. Sheehan again, "“The canon lawyers were in a difficult situation, and Father does have his civil rights and he decided to follow his legal counsel, which he had a right to do,” he said. “We tried to continue the investigation without speaking to the principal witnesses.”

The investigation was halted after Father Corapi “sent us a letter resigning from active ministry and religious life. I have written him a letter asking him to confirm that decision. If so, we will help him with this process of leaving religious life,” said Father Sheehan.
(11-08-2012, 08:23 PM)Gerard Wrote: [ -> ]The investigation was halted after Father Corapi “sent us a letter resigning from active ministry and religious life. I have written him a letter asking him to confirm that decision. If so, we will help him with this process of leaving religious life,” said Father Sheehan.

Has such a request for laicization been approved by Rome? If not, then he has no right to dress, act and address himself in the manner of a layman.
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