FishEaters Traditional Catholic Forums

Full Version: French Traditionalism
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
Pages: 1 2
Why is traditionalism so large in France? Is it just because Arch. Lefebvre was French?
My understanding is that traditionalism in France is tied in with older ecclesial, political, and cultural struggles. For instance, even before Vatican II you had Catholics who supported royalism or Action Francaise versus those who took a more accommodating view of the Third Republic. Later on you had those who sided with the resistance versus those who supported the Vichy regime. These political and social struggles within French Catholicism were often connected to theological disagreements as well. So, in France traditionalism was continuing an older struggle that really did not exist in places like the United States, the UK, or Germany, and obviously a preexisting movement is probably going to be larger than one that has to start from scratch.
(11-05-2012, 11:41 PM)Aragon Wrote: [ -> ]Why is traditionalism so large in France? Is it just because Arch. Lefebvre was French?

France is the 'eldest daughter of the Church', a bit funny considering that France was the home of one of the worst revolutions in history. Other than that I don't know.
CP has got it, I think. The home of the Revolution is also the home of the Counter-Revolution.

There was an interesting paragraph in this essay: http://thesensiblebond.blogspot.com/p/wh...ilieu.html
(Note: I am not endorsing the argument of the essay one way or the other!)

"When I look back now, the SSPX position reminds me of the French monarchists who were invited to get involved in French Republican politics by Leo XIII. Many refused. Many still do. Their descendents [sic] are often, though not always, found among the ranks of the SSPX. They still hope for a restoration of the French monarchy, and they have done so for nearly 120 years since Leo XIII’s letter Au Milieu des Sollicitudes; indeed, since the death of the Duc de Chambord, the last of the Legitimists’ line. Only a few years ago, and even now, I imagine, vendors of Action française 2000, the latest publication of the neo-royalists, would stand outside St Nicolas du Chardonnet, the SSPX church on the Parisian Left Bank, on a Sunday morning. The most potent insult SSPX traditionalists throw at the Ecclesia Dei communities is that they are ‘ralliés’: they have rallied to what is called the Conciliar Church, like the treacherous monarchists rallying to the French Republic."

It seems natural that the home of the longest, most embittered and embattled minority resistance to secularizations, liberalizations, etc. would prove a crucible for post-VII traditionalism.
The French are a rather serious and political people.  Pretty grown up really.  They are less lukewarm than Anglo/Saxons.
(11-06-2012, 12:02 AM)Cordobes Wrote: [ -> ]CP has got it, I think. The home of the Revolution is also the home of the Counter-Revolution.

There was an interesting paragraph in this essay: http://thesensiblebond.blogspot.com/p/wh...ilieu.html
(Note: I am not endorsing the argument of the essay one way or the other!)

"When I look back now, the SSPX position reminds me of the French monarchists who were invited to get involved in French Republican politics by Leo XIII. Many refused. Many still do. Their descendents [sic] are often, though not always, found among the ranks of the SSPX. They still hope for a restoration of the French monarchy, and they have done so for nearly 120 years since Leo XIII’s letter Au Milieu des Sollicitudes; indeed, since the death of the Duc de Chambord, the last of the Legitimists’ line. Only a few years ago, and even now, I imagine, vendors of Action française 2000, the latest publication of the neo-royalists, would stand outside St Nicolas du Chardonnet, the SSPX church on the Parisian Left Bank, on a Sunday morning. The most potent insult SSPX traditionalists throw at the Ecclesia Dei communities is that they are ‘ralliés’: they have rallied to what is called the Conciliar Church, like the treacherous monarchists rallying to the French Republic."

It seems natural that the home of the longest, most embittered and embattled minority resistance to secularizations, liberalizations, etc. would prove a crucible for post-VII traditionalism.


A lot of trad catholics in France are believing in the many Great Monarch prophecies predicting a king's restoration on the Throne of France.
Have you seen some of the French translations of the liturgy?

www.aelf.fr
(11-05-2012, 11:56 PM)Aethelwulfson Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-05-2012, 11:41 PM)Aragon Wrote: [ -> ]Why is traditionalism so large in France? Is it just because Arch. Lefebvre was French?

France is the 'eldest daughter of the Church', a bit funny considering that France was the home of one of the worst revolutions in history. Other than that I don't know.

Nah, the ideas weren't French.  German and English philosophers were the ones who brought the ideas into France.  Revolutions inspired by Protestant and atheist thinking.
(11-06-2012, 12:02 AM)Cordobes Wrote: [ -> ]CP has got it, I think. The home of the Revolution is also the home of the Counter-Revolution.

There was an interesting paragraph in this essay: http://thesensiblebond.blogspot.com/p/wh...ilieu.html
(Note: I am not endorsing the argument of the essay one way or the other!)

"When I look back now, the SSPX position reminds me of the French monarchists who were invited to get involved in French Republican politics by Leo XIII. Many refused. Many still do. Their descendents [sic] are often, though not always, found among the ranks of the SSPX. They still hope for a restoration of the French monarchy, and they have done so for nearly 120 years since Leo XIII’s letter Au Milieu des Sollicitudes; indeed, since the death of the Duc de Chambord, the last of the Legitimists’ line. Only a few years ago, and even now, I imagine, vendors of Action française 2000, the latest publication of the neo-royalists, would stand outside St Nicolas du Chardonnet, the SSPX church on the Parisian Left Bank, on a Sunday morning. The most potent insult SSPX traditionalists throw at the Ecclesia Dei communities is that they are ‘ralliés’: they have rallied to what is called the Conciliar Church, like the treacherous monarchists rallying to the French Republic."

It seems natural that the home of the longest, most embittered and embattled minority resistance to secularizations, liberalizations, etc. would prove a crucible for post-VII traditionalism.

Yes.  They hold to hope that the prophecies on the Great Monarch and Great Pope will come to fruition.  Uncompromising.  Overall, they were right to resist the Third Republic... it led to the downfall of the Papal States.  Leo XIII and Pius IX lived to regret that.
(11-06-2012, 03:46 PM)ggreg Wrote: [ -> ]The French are a rather serious and political people.  Pretty grown up really.  They are less lukewarm than Anglo/Saxons.

Here, here!  I agree.  Why do the Germanic peoples abandon the faith so readily?  It took everyone else longer.
Pages: 1 2