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The following document was found in the archives of the East German Stasi (Minstry for State Security) after the fall of the Berlin Wall. It may be perused on pages 45-52 of the book "Spies in the Vatican: The Soviet Union's Cold War against the Catholic Church," by John Koehler, a recently deceased U.S. Intelligence official. Before its 2009 publication by Pegasus Books, Mr. Koehler confirmed the authenticity of this and other transcripts like it by speaking to Vatican officials who had been present for the original conversations. Mr. Koehler found a large number of other transcripts which reveal that Soviet Bloc intelligence services were bugging both Paul IV and senior officials in the Curia. He also names a large number of priests and bishops who willingly spied on their own CHurch. All Traditional Catholics are strongly recommended to obtain and read Mr. Koehler's book.

At the time of the conversation, North and South Vietnam had recently signed a peace treaty in Paris. However, the Viet-Cong continued their violent terrorist activities in the South. Meanwhile, with the full support of Pope Paul VI, Richard Nixon continued removing American troops from the threatres of combat. According to Koehler, this transcript would have revealed to the North Vietnamese that, if they openly renounced the truce and launched another attempt to invade and Communise South Vietnam, even the Holy See would not protest. Considering the recent discussions about the possible Beatification of Pope Paul VI, this is a very timely subject to re-examine.
In the Sacred and Immaculate Hearts,
kingstowngalway


Department X                                                                          Berlin March 29, 1973
                                                                                            Log No. X/ 980/73
                                                                                      Translation from the Russian.
                                                                                            TOP SECRET!
Information from the Security Organs of the People's Republic of Poland.

Stenographic transcript of negotiations between the Paul VI and the Foreign Minister of South Vietnam, Tran Van Lam.

Vatican February 22, 1973.

Pope: I greet you Mr. Minister. May God bless you.

L: I thank Your Holiness. I have the honor to deliver a letter and greetings from our President, Mr. Van Thieu.

Pope: That is very kind of him. We are very thankful to President Thieu that he also thought of us. We must thank the merciful God that he has given us hope in these hours.

L: Your Holiness, we are very worried. WE feel ourselves as betrayed and abandoned. So many of our young people have perished for nothing.

Pope: Only God knows the value of self-sacrifice and not a single sacrifice offered to God will have been in vain.

L: Our people noe are experiencing hours of suffering. We became an object of barter in the hands of the great powers, and we believed that the United States was our friend.

Pope: This they are, Mr. Minister. When we can maintain the peace, then your sacrifices will not have been in vain. Please believe us...

L: For us this war has not yet ended.

Pope: Mr. Minister, you surely mean the struggle for a free and peaceful development of your wonderful people. Should that be so, then we share your fears and those of President Van Thieu. The important factor is to put an end to this fratricidal war, a war not only between the children of one and the same God, but of one and the same homeland as well.

L: But we are still fighting.

Pope: We know about that. We pray often to God that He spare the people who are so dear to our hearts, of further sacrifices and pain.

L: Mr. Nguyen Van Thieu instructed me to thenk Your Holiness for the help which during all these years You have provided us either  direct through the Papal Throne, or through representatives of various Catholic organizations.

Pope: We thank you. We wanted to do more, but unfortunately we are also dependant on the generousity of others.

L: Our Government entertains the hope that, in these difficult hours, it will not also be abandoned by the Catholic Church.

Pope: Our heart beats for you. We will never abandon you, but as you know, Our voice does not always find resonance.

L: However, in spite of all this, the diplomacy of the Papal Throne favors the agreement between the United States and the Government of Hanoi.

Pope: Yes, that is true. Inv arious circumastances, we gave you to understand that all the firing must cease. Those on the other side were your foes, but at the same time also your brothers. We told the same thing to Mr. Xuan Thuy [of North Vietnam].

L: We felt very disappointed, and it was for us a great surprise, when we heard that Your Holiness wished to receive this Communist.

Pope: We always receive all. This house is the House of God.

L: But they are the enemy of the Church and the enemy of all religions. They are the enemy of humanity.

Pope: We have nothing in common with their ideology, but we worry over the question of peace and the discontinuation of firing.

L: In our country we have almost one million of refugees from North Vietnam. In many cases they are Catholics and clergymen, who fled to us to escape Communist persecution.

Pope: This is well known to us. God values the good that you have done. Who knows, perhaps today's happenings are the days of God's mercifulness. Please believe us, believe us, that most importantly is the ceasefire.

L: But we already no longer feel safe from new Communist attacks.

Pope: Mr. Minister, God's mercifulness is unending. I beg you not to forget that times have changed.

L: Our Catholic Bishops also are full of fear and are worried.

Pope: We know that, Mr. Minister. But, look, it is necessary that one must trust in God in whose hands one must place one's self of his own free will.

L: But I am talking about politics, not Theology.

Pope: Yes, indeed. The Will of God shows itself in all spheres.

L: But we cannot simply give in to the Communists who occupy our Catholic soil.

Pope; We have provided you with help in every possible way. And despite that, we must jointly think about God's Will and bow to it even when it seems to us that things are not going well for us.

L: Does that mean that the Papal Throne will also forsake us?

Pope: What are you saying, Mr. Minister! We have already pulled together all of our resources in order to participate in the reconstruction of your glorious country.

L: But still, the help is for those from the North.

Pope: In your case the Papal Throne does not divide people according to borders. For us they are all children of a heavenly Father.

L: We are a people fighting for freedom.

Pope: That makes us very happy, Mr. Minister. WE wish to believe that it will help in freeing the political prisoners which are in your hands.

L: When it comes to that question, we have the best of intentions. However, the opponent has no political prisoners of ours since almost all were murdered.

Pope: A fratricidal war is the most horrible of all wars. Somebody has to make the beginning.

L: In a few days in Paris, I shall see the good will of our foe.

Pope: Mr. Minister, if you do all that depends on you, you will achieve peace and God's blessings.

L: But we are threatened by Communism.

Pope: According to your opinion, you have exactly the possibility to push ahead in with the question of neutralization of Vietnam, first in a divided then in a united Vietnam.

L: By the Communists? No!

Pope: We mean that such a process will be carried out by the sons of the Vietnamese people.

L: However, Your Holiness, we are of the opinion, that the decision on this question is, at this point, not even close.

Pope: The developments of the events will be shown. God will decide.

L: Before I travel to Paris, I wish to beg Your Holiness to excercise your great authority to influence Washington not to allow any Communist agreession against my country or the neighboring States.

Pope: Our staff maintains a steady contact with the staff of Richard Nixon. We believe that we have already used these means available to us.

L: Allow me to remark that you have already used these means in favor of our opponents.

Pope: For peace, Mr. Minister. Be so kind and relay to President Van Thieu our heartfelt best wishes and assure him of our fatherly understanding for the all of the Vietnamese people and for your State in the South.

L: I thank Your Holiness.

Pope: And we wish to also add out Apostolic Blessing for all those in Vietnam who expect justice, freedom, and a free dissemination of the truth.

L: I thank Your Holiness.
Where's the blistering part?
(12-31-2012, 02:15 AM)maldon Wrote: [ -> ]Where's the blistering part?

They were speaking really fast, so the stenographer got blistered fingers
(12-31-2012, 02:15 AM)maldon Wrote: [ -> ]Where's the blistering part?

You didn't hear the guitar solo.
What did he think the Vatican could do? How many troops did you expect the Vatican to send over there?
It could have consecrated Russia as Our Lady had asked.  That was a weapon to kill communism and the errors of the Church in one fell swoop.
Instead the Pope said:
" I beg you not to forget that times have changed."
In other words," the catholic people and refugees of the South Vietnam Republic must accept to go underground or to be martyred at the hands of our beloved communist friends"
(12-31-2012, 02:58 AM)GeorgeT Wrote: [ -> ]
(12-31-2012, 02:15 AM)maldon Wrote: [ -> ]Where's the blistering part?

You didn't hear the guitar solo.

LOL  Sorry, Bakuryokuso, but this one wins the whimsical quip o' the morning
(12-31-2012, 09:57 AM)maso Wrote: [ -> ]Instead the Pope said:
" I beg you not to forget that times have changed."
In other words," the catholic people and refugees of the South Vietnam Republic must accept to go underground or to be martyred at the hands of our beloved communist friends"

Vladimir Lenin famously called people like Pope Paul VI "Useful Idiots."
I don't buy that explanation.  I work with people at the top of organisations and they are not idiots.  Let's stop excusing these people like they take some unintelligent parish priest and put him in the chair of Peter.  They are intelligent, ambitious and capable enough to get to the papacy through the various ranks of the church. None of them are dummies.  Far from it.
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