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Full Version: Homosexual Marriage. Why is the Church picking this battleground ?
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One for the conspiracy minded.

The Church appears to be seeking to pick a political standing ground, at least here in the UK, on the issue of homosexual marriage.  There is a much larger amount of media coverage and fairly clear "make a stand" type statements from churchmen on this topic than I can ever recall the Bishop making about Abortion or any other moral issue.  There have been several announcements from the pulpit issued by the local bishops and some of these have had an almost apocalyptic tone and have even mentioned martyrdom.  It is on the front pages of the Catholic newspapers frequently.

An optimist might rejoice that after 40 years the Bishops of Britain finally appear to have grown a pair.  But this is out of character and it makes me wonder why men who have been weaklings about Abortion, Divorce, couples living with each other before marriage, or with no intention to be married (which is very common here) appear to have drawn a line on this particular issue.  Why now and why this given what they have let slide without vocal objection.

Is the Church doing this vigorous campaign worldwide, at least in the countries where same sex marriage is on the cards?  Who is driving it?  How much of a counter campaign is being mounted in your country?

The Bishops seem to be of the opinion that allowing homosexual marriage in secular society will destroy the nature of marriage and send human society into the abyss.  It is almost like they are saying, all that other stuff we were prepared to tolerate in the name of ecumenism and (false) charity but this is a bridge too far.

Personally, I don't get why they see homo marriage as something that will change society significantly  more than other moral declines do. Heterosexuals are not going to radically change their natures nor are young people going to be especially scandalised at the idea that 1 in 100 marriages, or less are homosexual.  So many secular heterosexuals and even Catholics treat marriage like a joke and something to be jumped in and out of that I really don't see that allowing homosexuals to be legally married is going to make much of a difference to society.  Besides that horse has left the stable already I think the majority of the population support homo marriage or are indifferent to it.

In short, marriage has already been destroyed in the mind of the typical secularist Brit and European.  The state agrees that infanticide is legal and funds it with taxes.  Why are a bunch of Bishops most of whom are highly tolerant of homosexuals choosing this as a campaigning point?
The Church is doing this worldwide; Spain, the USA, France (that is one of the reasons that the government is talking about "pathological religion") Italy, Mexico, Australia, etc...
Perhaps they see a particular danger in something that is unnatural and disordered being formalized and enshrined in law.  It's one thing to tolerate it, but to give it official public sanction is something else.  And as horrific as abortion might be, it is not unnatural in that way.  So perhaps they are worried not so much by immoral things being legal, but by unnatural things being specifically recognized in law.  It does seem that that is a significant departure for society.  I'm not sure such a thing has ever been done in the history of mankind.  It seems like even in cultures where homosexual acts were widely practiced, people would have considered the idea of homosexual marriage rather nonsensical.
I'd guess it's likely because today's glorification of aberrosexual behavior is sort of like the fatal symptoms of a chronic disease.  Once it shows up, you know the situation is dire (and too late to prevent a tragedy).  Though people have destroyed marriage as a social institution a long time ago with divorce, contraception and abortions, it was possible to maintain at least a veneer of order and respectability.  Stuff like divorce and contraception were rarely shoved into people's faces and unless someone did so, those vices are easily ignored by those who wished to do so.

Under normal circumstances, you'd think that practitioners of aberrosexual acts, abortion and contraception would die off due to the lack of offspring and leave thriving families to take over.  That isn't the case though since they strive get themselves into positions where they can teach their ideas to the children of fruitful couples.

Homosexuals cannot be ignored any longer because they aren't going to allow anyone to ignore them anymore.  They're determined to force their way to social acceptance by demanding marriage privileges (but give nothing in return), demanding that other people's children be indoctrinated in perverse behavior, seeking a lower age of assent and spreading pornography amongst the young.  After all, they cannot carry on their legacy the way others do - by begetting and raising children that take after themselves.  They have to push increasingly bizarre behavior upon all the children in society so they grow up without any moral inhibitions whatsoever when it comes to sex.

I suspect the bishops have simply realized that society isn't going to allow Catholics to ride the fence anymore.  We'll soon have to choose: either give assent to the culture that removes procreation from sexuality or become martyrs.  It's the whole "offer incense to the gods" scenario being played over again.

What happens to the world when everyone is either practicing contraception, aberrosexual behavior or being imprisoned, martyred and having their children carried away for refusing to endorse it?  Obviously that would result in the destruction of humanity through depopulation via a low birth rate.  Really, the only hope now is in God.  Until He intervenes, society will tear itself apart.
(01-01-2013, 03:25 AM)cgraye Wrote: [ -> ]Perhaps they see a particular danger in something that is unnatural and disordered being formalized and enshrined in law.  It's one thing to tolerate it, but to give it official public sanction is something else.  And as horrific as abortion might be, it is not unnatural in that way.

They were sodomising before they married and will be sodomising afterwards.  The only difference is that they will have a certificate from the state.

If there were not liberal divorce laws I could agree that enshrining homo marriage was particularly scandalous.  But legal marriage is such a joke today that it would not scandalise me if the law allowed a man to marry a mouse,  I would simply think the law and the politicians who made it are asses.

Surely mothers murdering their unborn children is pretty unnatural.  That is enshrined in law.  I cannot see how homosexual marriage is more unnatural than abortion.

Plus there are far more abortions than there will ever be homosexual marriages.

(01-01-2013, 03:25 AM)cgraye Wrote: [ -> ]So perhaps they are worried not so much by immoral things being legal, but by unnatural things being specifically recognized in law.  It does seem that that is a significant departure for society.  I'm not sure such a thing has ever been done in the history of mankind.  It seems like even in cultures where homosexual acts were widely practiced, people would have considered the idea of homosexual marriage rather nonsensical.

The right to contracept and abort are recognised in the law and in the UN charter.  They are unnatural and far more wide reaching.

The right to have IVF is recognised in law and funded by tax payer dollars.  That is unnatural

Why does it really matter if one more unnatural thing is recognised in law?
(01-01-2013, 03:33 AM)Akavit Wrote: [ -> ]I'd guess it's likely because today's glorification of aberrosexual behavior is sort of like the fatal symptoms of a chronic disease.  Once it shows up, you know the situation is dire (and too late to prevent a tragedy).  Though people have destroyed marriage as a social institution a long time ago with divorce, contraception and abortions, it was possible to maintain at least a veneer of order and respectability.  Stuff like divorce and contraception were rarely shoved into people's faces and unless someone did so, those vices are easily ignored by those who wished to do so.

Under normal circumstances, you'd think that practitioners of aberrosexual acts, abortion and contraception would die off due to the lack of offspring and leave thriving families to take over.  That isn't the case though since they strive get themselves into positions where they can teach their ideas to the children of fruitful couples.

Homosexuals cannot be ignored any longer because they aren't going to allow anyone to ignore them anymore.  They're determined to force their way to social acceptance by demanding marriage privileges (but give nothing in return), demanding that other people's children be indoctrinated in perverse behavior, seeking a lower age of assent and spreading pornography amongst the young.  After all, they cannot carry on their legacy the way others do - by begetting and raising children that take after themselves.  They have to push increasingly bizarre behavior upon all the children in society so they grow up without any moral inhibitions whatsoever when it comes to sex.

I suspect the bishops have simply realized that society isn't going to allow Catholics to ride the fence anymore.  We'll soon have to choose: either give assent to the culture that removes procreation from sexuality or become martyrs.  It's the whole "offer incense to the gods" scenario being played over again.

What happens to the world when everyone is either practicing contraception, aberrosexual behavior or being imprisoned, martyred and having their children carried away for refusing to endorse it?  Obviously that would result in the destruction of humanity through depopulation via a low birth rate.  Really, the only hope now is in God.  Until He intervenes, society will tear itself apart.

Good answer.  But when push comes to shove can you see many of the nervous ordo crowd becoming martyrs?  I cannot see why they would want to do that when the last 40 years have been a long string of capitulations.

They contracepted for an easier life, why would they throw their life away now?
Good answer.  But when push comes to shove can you see many of the nervous ordo crowd becoming martyrs?  I cannot see why they would want to do that when the last 40 years have been a long string of capitulations.

They contracepted for an easier life, why would they throw their life away now?
[/quote]
What happenned is that there is a new "sheriff" in town.
:) :) :)
(01-01-2013, 02:57 AM)ggreg Wrote: [ -> ]Personally, I don't get why they see homo marriage as something that will change society significantly  more than other moral declines do.

Because society is headed toward the direction of saying the Church's teaching here is hateful and cannot be tolerared. Hate groups aren't given non-profit status, don't get the hospitals licensed, don't get their schools accredited, and generally people who publicly belong to hate groups have trouble making an income. The Church's other teachings can be dismissed by society as antiquarian, but the Church's stance on homosecuality could eventually lead the Church back into the catacombs.   
(01-01-2013, 04:33 AM)Poche Wrote: [ -> ]Good answer.  But when push comes to shove can you see many of the nervous ordo crowd becoming martyrs?  I cannot see why they would want to do that when the last 40 years have been a long string of capitulations.

They contracepted for an easier life, why would they throw their life away now?

The Catholics that are getting killed in Nigeria are Novus Ordo. 

Worst that has happened at a trad chapel lately was a woman walked up to the altar and took pictures. 
It is strange. Here in Scotland the Bishops have been making very strong noises against the redefinition of marriage. Cardinal O'Brien above all. This is entirely laudable.

Nevertheless, I don't understand why they have been tolerant of far more grave matters such as a priest who regularly featured as an "agony uncle" on radio and has publicly given approval to abortion:
Quote:Father Monaghan’s Open Line show attracted the ire of traditional Catholics, furious at his frank advice on contraception and abortion.

Further, the lack of support given by the Scottish Bishops to the late anti-abortion campaigner, Fr James Morrow was extremely puzzling.

Yes, it is good to make a stand against same-sex marriage, but why has there been no similarly vocal campaign against abortion?
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