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Full Version: Forget about quality, get as many people possible to say there catholic.
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(01-08-2013, 06:05 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote: [ -> ]As an aside, didn't VII stipulate that the normative method of music for all Roman rites should be Gregorian chant?

Sure did.  Good luck getting anyone to believe it though, even if you stick the documents in their nose.
In Pius IV encyclical he states that people do not have to be perfect to attend mass. I never said they did, nor did I say they had to fully understand the faith. What I am saying is that they must accept the faith and worship God the way he wishes instead of replacing sacred and reverent parts of the mass with sensual music. My concern is not with people who don't understand why rock music is bad but people who reject the churches teaching on sacred music, and wish to replace it with their desire.

(01-08-2013, 02:41 AM)Someone1776 Wrote: [ -> ]Basically the point is there are plenty of people who attend mass for less than stellar reasons. Maybe the mass won't ever convert them. Maybe it might take them 50 years. Ideally we want them to attend for God and to live for God, but it's not ours or even the Church's place to say they are better off not there.  You greatly underestimate how many people have historically just gone through the motions at mass. 

    I'm all for getting people to mass for social reasons or love of Latin. However the scenario I gave is much different. People who will only go If they get the music they like, they are not just ignorant but arrogant in the fact that they believe it is for them to determine how to worship God, nor do they desire the good of God, but there own pleasure. These people at these masses are not just observers, they are a movement And group of people who turn our church into a nice place with no mean doctrines. If these people are willing to go to a reverent mass the that's fine, but their goal is not to please God, it is to change the focuse of the Mass from pleasing God to pleasing man. I see no reason the church would not want to get rid of these people.
(01-08-2013, 12:55 AM)Mithrandylan Wrote: [ -> ]A bigger problem is thinking that mass attendance should be influenced by music.  Until your friend can be convinced to go to mass for God, he's not going to go with any real purpose, even if he likes the music.

This.

A similar argument I have had is with Catholics who stop going to Mass because of the content of sermons.

Talk about the four ends of the Mass with him instead. Frame the whole discussion around them how to best fulfill them out of love for God.
(01-26-2013, 01:37 PM)Richard C Wrote: [ -> ]Talk about the four ends of the Mass with him instead. Frame the whole discussion around them how to best fulfill them out of love for God.
What are the 4 ends.
(01-26-2013, 07:32 PM)jim111 Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-26-2013, 01:37 PM)Richard C Wrote: [ -> ]Talk about the four ends of the Mass with him instead. Frame the whole discussion around them how to best fulfill them out of love for God.
What are the 4 ends.

From the Angelus Press 1962 Daily Missal, p 826

Quote:Assisting at holy Mass you should have the fourfold intention of Adoration, by which we acknowledge our dependence on God as the Ruler over life and death; of Praise and Thanksgiving for the benefits conferred on us; of Reparation for our sins and negligences, of Impetration, to implore of Him the grace necessary for our salvation.  If you desire to implore other benefits from God through the holy Sacrifice of the Mas. very well, but do not forget the main intention.
(01-27-2013, 01:48 AM)Mithrandylan Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-26-2013, 07:32 PM)jim111 Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-26-2013, 01:37 PM)Richard C Wrote: [ -> ]Talk about the four ends of the Mass with him instead. Frame the whole discussion around them how to best fulfill them out of love for God.
What are the 4 ends.

From the Angelus Press 1962 Daily Missal, p 826

Quote:Assisting at holy Mass you should have the fourfold intention of Adoration, by which we acknowledge our dependence on God as the Ruler over life and death; of Praise and Thanksgiving for the benefits conferred on us; of Reparation for our sins and negligences, of Impetration, to implore of Him the grace necessary for our salvation.  If you desire to implore other benefits from God through the holy Sacrifice of the Mas. very well, but do not forget the main intention.

I have always remembered them by remember how a good Catholic ACTS during Mass. 

ACTS is also a handy acronym for teaching a newbie how to pray.

ACTS = Adoration, Contrition, Thanksgiving, Supplication

Adoration
Contrition (Reparation)
Thanksgiving (and Praise)
Supplication (Impetration)
Thanks Adam.

That's a good way to remember it.
(01-27-2013, 10:49 AM)Adam_Michael Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-27-2013, 01:48 AM)Mithrandylan Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-26-2013, 07:32 PM)jim111 Wrote: [ -> ][quote='Richard C' pid='1135274' dateline='1359221867']
Talk about the four ends of the Mass with him instead. Frame the whole discussion around them how to best fulfill them out of love for God.
What are the 4 ends.
 

ACTS is also a handy acronym for teaching a newbie how to pray.

ACTS = Adoration, Contrition, Thanksgiving, Supplication

Adoration
Contrition (Reparation)
Thanksgiving (and Praise)
Supplication (Impetration)
 

          This is good- I learned ALTAR- same idea-  Adoration & Love, Thanksgiving, Asking, Repentance
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