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(01-22-2013, 08:54 AM)ggreg Wrote: [ -> ]I wonder why God did that?  Why let Satan even have a go for 100 years?  Was He bored?  Curious?  Did He want to show off?

Why not simply say to Satan.  "No Satan, you crazy bastard.  Now back to Hell with you."

Forgive my analogy but God and Satan do seem to be playing the role of a couple of hillbillies in this vision, seeing whether the Ford Truck one owns is really as tough as they say.  Is this some spiritual world equivalent of, "Will it Blend?"

You are Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.  (But I might have a little side bet with Satan in 2000 years just to test that out.)

In Scripture there is the bit about Ha Satan making his rounds and talking to God about this or that accusation of humans. It is curious to me how the chief wicked angel gets access to God and is allowed to dis humans. Greg's description as hill billies certainly points to some odd stuff there for sure.

tim
(01-22-2013, 10:00 AM)Rosarium Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-22-2013, 08:54 AM)ggreg Wrote: [ -> ]I wonder why God did that?  Why let Satan even have a go for 100 years?  Was He bored?  Curious?  Did He want to show off?

Why not simply say to Satan.  "No Satan, you crazy bastard.  Now back to Hell with you."

The book of Job may be enlightening.

I already have a Job.
(01-22-2013, 10:00 AM)Rosarium Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-22-2013, 08:54 AM)ggreg Wrote: [ -> ]I wonder why God did that?  Why let Satan even have a go for 100 years?  Was He bored?  Curious?  Did He want to show off?

Why not simply say to Satan.  "No Satan, you crazy bastard.  Now back to Hell with you."
The book of Job may be enlightening.


Quote:Forgive my analogy but God and Satan do seem to be playing the role of a couple of hillbillies in this vision, seeing whether the Ford Truck one owns is really as tough as they say.  Is this some spiritual world equivalent of, "Will it Blend?"
It is consistent with St. John and other public revelation.

I would say that the principle reason is sin. It is because of sin that such trials are allowed to take place.

There is always sin.  There are not always trials like the one we are going through now.  Universal, widely publicised and affecting every Catholic in every parish and in an environment where Science provides an alternative naturalistic explanation and religion itself and the belief in a higher power is under question.

I simply don't believe that the Arian Heresy had such dramatic effects on Christian's morals and faith as this crisis.  This has attributes which make it far more devastating to the man in the pew.
To add and the Arian heresy was clear cut. This comes from every which way until we don't know which way is up. Though I see the morals diabolical push as coming from without the Church but driving a stake right through it's center.Much of this is the idea that Science can speak to all of our needs and desires and the Church is cast in to the dust bin of history. It tells us what is really wrong; overpopulation, extinction of animals, global warming, a coming ice age, vaccinations for everything, and more.

tim
And let's be fair.  If you live in Europe or the Americas or most of the middle East and Oceania then, by and large, the new world order has met your material needs.

The electric light bulb, fossil fuels, internal combustion engines, float glass, antibiotics, universal education, suffrage, etc, etc.

Atheistic modern man might not be able to help you save your soul, but many people have a very comfortable and exciting life compared to the past and that number is steadily increasing.  The average Joe tends to think, "religion might pay off eventually, but Materialism pays off right now".
(01-22-2013, 10:34 AM)ggreg Wrote: [ -> ]There is always sin.  There are not always trials like the one we are going through now.  Universal, widely publicised and affecting every Catholic in every parish and in an environment where Science provides an alternative naturalistic explanation and religion itself and the belief in a higher power is under question.

I simply don't believe that the Arian Heresy had such dramatic effects on Christian's morals and faith as this crisis.  This has attributes which make it far more devastating to the man in the pew.

Even if every bishop and every priest in the Church were a model of orthodoxy and moral living, we would be facing a crisis because of the nature of secular society.  We are inundated with atheism, materialism, liberalism, feminism and a host of evil ideas. They are in our governments, our entertainment and educational institutions.  We are in a war where the battlefield is our minds and few of us have the weapons to fight well.  I think less complaining about our leaders and more taking responsibility for what we ourselves can do would go a long way.
(01-22-2013, 11:48 AM)JayneK Wrote: [ -> ]I think less complaining about our leaders and more taking responsibility for what we ourselves can do would go a long way.

That would eliminate many of the posts on these forums, though...
(01-22-2013, 11:14 AM)Tim Wrote: [ -> ]To add and the Arian heresy was clear cut. This comes from every which way until we don't know which way is up. Though I see the morals diabolical push as coming from without the Church but driving a stake right through it's center.Much of this is the idea that Science can speak to all of our needs and desires and the Church is cast in to the dust bin of history. It tells us what is really wrong; overpopulation, extinction of animals, global warming, a coming ice age, vaccinations for everything, and more.

tim

The Arian controversy was the opposite of clear cut.  The Arians had their day in the sun because the majority of bishops who were not Arians went along because they were confused.  It took generations to unravel the madness.
(01-22-2013, 11:48 AM)JayneK Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-22-2013, 10:34 AM)ggreg Wrote: [ -> ]There is always sin.  There are not always trials like the one we are going through now.  Universal, widely publicised and affecting every Catholic in every parish and in an environment where Science provides an alternative naturalistic explanation and religion itself and the belief in a higher power is under question.

I simply don't believe that the Arian Heresy had such dramatic effects on Christian's morals and faith as this crisis.  This has attributes which make it far more devastating to the man in the pew.

Even if every bishop and every priest in the Church were a model of orthodoxy and moral living, we would be facing a crisis because of the nature of secular society.  We are inundated with atheism, materialism, liberalism, feminism and a host of evil ideas. They are in our governments, our entertainment and educational institutions.  We are in a war where the battlefield is our minds and few of us have the weapons to fight well.  I think less complaining about our leaders and more taking responsibility for what we ourselves can do would go a long way.

In which case why unchain Satan for 100 years in some sort of bizarre wager between what reminds me of capricious Greek gods.

Would it not have been difficult enough already?

Seems odd for Jesus to die on the Cross, triumph over death, open the Gates of Heaven, establish the Church as infallible and his bride on earth and then let Satan have a go at seducing her for 100 years sometime in the early 20th century.

While I trust my wife I don't think I would invite Brad Pitt over for tea.
(01-22-2013, 12:36 PM)ggreg Wrote: [ -> ]In which case why unchain Satan for 100 years in some sort of bizarre wager between what reminds me of capricious Greek gods.

Would it not have been difficult enough already?

Seems odd for Jesus to die on the Cross, triumph over death, open the Gates of Heaven, establish the Church as infallible and his bride on earth and then let Satan have a go at seducing her for 100 years sometime in the early 20th century.

Satan has been the Prince of this world ever since Adam and Eve.  There is nothing special about the last hundred years, as far as that goes.  God gave us free will and that gift is meaningless unless choosing evil is an option.  The form of evil changes throughout history, but it is always there.

(01-22-2013, 12:36 PM)ggreg Wrote: [ -> ]While I trust my wife I don't think I would invite Brad Pitt over for tea.

I dare say that, if we thought about it, we could come up with some other ways that God is different from you.  It must be an oversight on His part.
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