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Archbishop Müller: Catholics & Protestants
are united in the same visible Church

“With much clarity, the paradigm shift away from polemics and controversies constitutes the present and the future of ecumenism. Its core is this: We determine our relationship to each other no longer with regard to the differences that actually exist in the doctrine, life and constitution of the Church, but rather on the common foundation upon which we stand – ‘For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ … Know you not that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst?’ (1 Cor 3:11, 16). … ”

“Baptism is the fundamental sign that we are sacramentally united in Christ, and that presents us as the one visible Church before the world. Thus, we as Catholic and Protestant Christians, are already united even in what we call the visible Church. Strictly speaking, there are not several Churches, one beside the other, but rather these are separations and divisions within the one people and one house of God. …”

Original German text:
[Image: 159_Muller02.jpg]

[Image: 159_Muller03.jpg]

Source: http://www.traditioninaction.org/Progres...-Prot.html
This is not just problematic in the same sense that most Cardinals and bishops' statements on ecumenism are problematic.  This takes things one step further and makes the nebulous "Church of Christ" (which VII and the post-Conciliar Church affirm as encompassing all Christian faiths) something actually visible.  While it often seems that post-Conciliar theologians are stating that the Roman Catholic Church is still the hierarchical structure of the One Church while heretical and schismatic organizations are merely invisibly part of it, Müller is actually stating that Protestants, Anglicans, Orthodox, etc. are part of the visible institution of the One Church.

As one can imagine, this has grave theological ramifications on ecclesiology, sacraments, communion, papal supremacy, etc.
Is the promotion of sedePrefectOfCDFism allowed on this forum?

I'm only half-kidding...

Thank you for the quotes, Walty.  Perhaps, with more context, we could see that His Eminence's statements are entirely orthodox?

Hmmm...
(02-04-2013, 07:10 PM)SouthpawLink Wrote: [ -> ]Perhaps, with more context, we could see that His Eminence's statements are entirely orthodox?

I would like for that to be so, but am at a complete loss for how that could be made to be so.
(02-04-2013, 07:11 PM)Walty Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-04-2013, 07:10 PM)SouthpawLink Wrote: [ -> ]Perhaps, with more context, we could see that His Eminence's statements are entirely orthodox?

I would like for that to be so, but am at a complete loss for how that could be made to be so.

I know, but that line always comes up.  I was being a tad sarcastic.  My apologies for the misunderstanding.

It's a shame that Catholic prelates are free to say whatever they want, however audacious, and we're supposed to unfailingly give them the benefit of the doubt, whereas in the past, we were to be more cautious and shun that which even approached heresy.  What's more, in the past, such prelates would have been penalized by the Holy See, but now, unfortunately, they're promoted to even higher positions.

On-topic:  Non-Catholics who publicly belong to false sects are not counted as members of the Church, even if their heresy is only material (in good faith).
(02-04-2013, 07:01 PM)Walty Wrote: [ -> ]Archbishop Müller: Catholics & Protestants
are united in the same visible Church

“With much clarity, the paradigm shift away from polemics and controversies constitutes the present and the future of ecumenism. Its core is this: We determine our relationship to each other no longer with regard to the differences that actually exist in the doctrine, life and constitution of the Church, but rather on the common foundation upon which we stand – ‘For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ … Know you not that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst?’ (1 Cor 3:11, 16). … ”

“Baptism is the fundamental sign that we are sacramentally united in Christ, and that presents us as the one visible Church before the world. Thus, we as Catholic and Protestant Christians, are already united even in what we call the visible Church. Strictly speaking, there are not several Churches, one beside the other, but rather these are separations and divisions within the one people and one house of God. …”

Original German text:
[Image: 159_Muller02.jpg]

[Image: 159_Muller03.jpg]

Source: http://www.traditioninaction.org/Progres...-Prot.html

*facepalm*
But those SSPX jerks are TOTALLY outta here.  Eye-roll
Considering the fact that Tradition in Action has a history of intentionally mistranslating their betters in an attempt to promote their nihilistic, anti-Christian agenda, I'm surprised that anyone would simply take their word for it when they accuse others of heresy.
All I can say is that I have noticed that rarely is it ever mentioned that the True Church is the Catholic Church anymore. There is a lot of talk of there being a "Body of Christ" and a "People of God" a Church of Christ but very little if any mention of any of those statements meaning the Roman Catholic Church. If what this man actually said what this post says he said than I don't see how it can be reconciled in any way, shape or form with traditional teaching.
(02-04-2013, 08:06 PM)Crusading Philologist Wrote: [ -> ]nihilistic, anti-Christian agenda

Granted I'm not very familiar with the site (I've followed links there or read articles there on occasion) but could you give an example of their "nihilistic agenda?"
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